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hoppah's avatar

A few years ago I spent an evening at the German Ambassador’s residence in San Francisco. He had a room on the ground floor with a photo collage of before-and-after photos of East German city centers, showing how they looked on or near the day of reunification, and how they look today. East Germany, under the Socialists, never rebuilt after the war because they couldn’t afford it. So all the towns ravaged by war stayed that way for nearly 50 years, and then the mighty West German economic engine reconstructed them all. The ambassador joined me as I stared in rapt amazement at the transformation and we talked about what an amazing thing it was, and how much of a disaster Socialism is.

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Joedirt's avatar

In 1981 Iwas a student who had the good fortune to spend a year in Europe. We took a trip to Berlin one weekend.. Along these vast gigantic well manicured boulevards we drove by very large apartment complexes. They were very cold very isolated very eerie almost ghostly.. We stopped at a modern Cafe for a beverage..

Then are tour guide who of course was associated with the East German government got us all on to our tour bus To go to our next propaganda point. We were a few miles down the road at least when she discovered one of our classmates was not on the bus. She had the driver take a shortcut back to the cafe to go retrieve this wayward student. We took off the main boulevard and went through all the back streets as apparently it was much faster. We went down another street that had a series of cross streets. At the end of every cross street perhaps 50 to a 100 yd down the road was a gigantic pile of rubble. All From World War II bombings.. It had not been cleaned up in over 35 years. It was quite an eye opener for all of us but in particular gave us great ammunition when speaking with Are lame brained Austrian political science professor who kept discussing the glories of socialism. It was quite an awakening…

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Charlotte's avatar

The DDR had this weird fascination in building these square buildings with gold glass all around to mark the "government" buildings. And the newer apartment blocks were only notable for their Brutalist architecture and the tremendous amount of concrete they used... Very few of these buildings survive, and even though they were not attractive, they were part of history and the youth forget so quickly what it used to be behind the wall- without these physical reminders it is all too easy for schools to sing the songs of the Sirens and pretend that socialism and communism is the ticket to utopia...

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Charlotte's avatar

Here's one building from East Berlin with an example of the gold glass (I think they thought it looked posh)..

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/east-berlin-palast-der-republik-site-of-the-east-german-news-photo/545009119

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AG's avatar

Wow. In the Soviet Union everything destroyed during WWII was rebuilt long before the 1980s. Piles of rubble from bombings that happened 35 years earlier... Wow.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

and then they destroyed the family farms

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GERT BO THORGERSEN's avatar

Probably Russia in the World War 2 was the hardest hit of he countries, with 20 - 50 million russian dead, and after the war only left 1 man for 2 women. So thereby understanding how long time it took for rebuilding, as biside with first thinking in using money to military weapon so not being attacted by the western countries.

Why did Churchill/the Western world, not in 1937 want to make an alliance, as Stalin then suggested when contacting Churchill, an alliance against Hitler, as Stalin saw what would come? Just like normal thinking, historical and politikal reading persons could see from 1933.

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GERT BO THORGERSEN's avatar

You forget that Nazi Germany plan it was to just kill the Russian farmers, and the by German persons to take ower, and this was done.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

fascinating

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GERT BO THORGERSEN's avatar

I think that you recal that by the Nurenberg process, the Nazisme was prohibited, among other this with not all living persons are biological equal. You recall Nitze "And thus spoke Zarasustra". But in Ukraines army we have the ultra nazi department Azov. Probably theat part of the army, in connection with CIA, since 2014 have killed at least 14,000 russians living in Ukraine. In 1945, CIA managed Ukraine and the Nazi leaders was not taking to Nurenberg. The Nazi leaders were hidden i Austria.

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GERT BO THORGERSEN's avatar

Since 1960s when teenager, I by private study, warned about what the capitalism could end with, that is what we now see, banks and maco rich persons/firms to do what the want, even killing poples. And besides by readig Hippocrates, could not get vaccination to have anything to do with nature; had God failured when Adam and Eva was made?

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GERT BO THORGERSEN's avatar

It looks You don't understand for what the Nazisme and the Communisme?

You ought to know that they are totally different.

Think about how the Nazism looking at different kinds of peoples, the Jews only af 1/2 humans. I during 24 years of educations, everyvere have been number one in history, and many years ago I for example ordered the 2 heavy books from before thee War, the German books translated to Danish, and in these a chapter about Jews, as they was to be concidered as totally human being.

And if You want to get an idea about from where Marx got the communist ideas the for example read about Robert Oven "New Lanarc"

And as a remark, how the China is functioning has nothing to do with communism - you now equal sally for workers or professors , and not multi rich person - but if China had function as Sovjet, which only was on the way to communism (as you knowe?), then it would have been destroud by USA. You know "Equal children ar best playing toget". Again, when China is called communist, it's a misinformation.

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Colin Brace's avatar

DDR may have not had enough money to clear all the rubble and build skyscrapers but they did have the moral clarity and determination to fully Denazify their society, something that most assuredly cannot be said about West Germany. Maybe socialism wasn't so bad after all?

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Joedirt's avatar

What nonsense. Naziism and Socialism were just opposite sides of the same coin. Yeah The DDR had their shit together all right. Thats why they had to have armed guards and a fenced in populace to keep them from escaping to W Berlin.

Yup they had it all figured out. Pardon me while I go vomit blood......FFS I think Im gonna go hurl....

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Colin Brace's avatar

Probably 100 million Russians would disagree with you and nearly all lost family members in that bitter struggle. Russia is now cleaning out the infestation of Western-backed Nazis in Ukraine, a thankless task, to be sure. I know which side I am on, and it isn't the guys with swastika tattoos.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

Thank you!

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hoppah's avatar

For something that’s not so bad after all, folks sure don’t seem to want to live under it.

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Captain Scarlet's avatar

Well put!

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Bootsorourke's avatar

not if they think about it.

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hoppah's avatar

The problem is, they never think about it. They wait and support it and cheer it on and then only figure it out after the guns are gone and they’re eating zoo animals to survive.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

The Nazis were socialists

National Socialist German Workers' Party

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BeadGurl's avatar

Can you clue all the progressive left in on that. They seem to think naziism is a far right movement.

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FlyoverCountry's avatar

Taken to extremes, far right and far left both end up totalitarian.

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hoppah's avatar

“Right” and “Left” are “teams” they want you to feel like you’re supporting. The real continuum is bounded by “liberty” and “tyranny”.

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BeadGurl's avatar

Agree, and I think Boots has a good point but we also know how twisted "religion" can become. Faith, now that's a different aspect.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

excellent point. I misspoke. I was thinking how spirituality can help guide a moral compass, not religious rules

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Bootsorourke's avatar

I think so but with the religion angle deleted in far left, a lot more people die

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Bootsorourke's avatar

That's because they invaded the education system first.

AOC (an economics major?!) thinks all of Scandanavia is socialist

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BeadGurl's avatar

Not sure a degree from Brown did much for the Crazy Eyed Bartender. She could've gone to Cuba or Venezuela for 4 years and learned as much for free. Socialism is the gateway "ism" to the hard core stuff like naziism and communism...and then the giant meth "ism" that is totalitarianism.

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Charlotte's avatar

I believe AOC went to Boston University. There is discussion that she did not major in Economics (she is obviously woefully lacking basic math skills) but instead got a BA in International Relations with a track in Economics, Business and Politics.

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Bandit's avatar

AOC is NOT the brightest bulb in the box.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

and she's really just a puppet. Her boyfriend is the one who directs her.

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Scott's avatar

Quite a few East Germans died trying to get out, so....

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Bootsorourke's avatar

in horrible ways too, some memorialized on film.

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Colin Brace's avatar

yes, that's true. But these things aren't black and white. How many people died trying to escape the jackboot of Western Imperialism? I don't mean at the seat of empire, I mean in the rest of the world.

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hoppah's avatar

Yeah, I see them every week, sitting on piles of floating trash in the middle of the ocean, hoping to get away from all that potential prosperity, yearning to wash up on the shores of a Socialist paradise.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

Only the Western countries practiced cruel imperialism? not so.

It's a worldwide thing.

-The Arabs against the blacks in Africa

-The Japanese cruelty in China.

-The Russians in Ukraine and other countries.

-The Syrians in Greece way back when.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I could add a few dozen to that list.

I'm sorry my ancestors were better combatants than other people's ancestors who were doing the exact same thing since literally the dawn of time.

This dude is hilarious.

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Colin Brace's avatar

I realize that. My point simply that its hypocritical to point at the failings of other systems without acknowledging the failings of one's own. One of the main differences for me between the big Communist experiments of the 20th C and the Western colonial and imperial system is that in the former they tended to oppress their own people while in West we enjoyed great personal liberties. The East Block however did not engage much in military adventurism, whereas we... how many wars has the combined West been involved in since WWII? A rather long list... Hence I don't think we can take the high moral ground viz-a-viz, for example, the DDR.

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Guttermouth's avatar

BAHAHAHA. I'm sure they've destroyed your file by now. It's been 30 years. You can stop licking ancient Stasi boots.

You're free. Go, run.

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Colin Brace's avatar

I have no interest in defending the Stasi, but would simply point out that Western intelligence agencies have the budgets and the surveillance technology that make the DDR gang look like pikers, and they have zero compunction about spying on we the people. Also, given the treatment that the Anglo-American neocon mafia is inflicting on Julian Assange -- slow-motion judicial murder -- are we in the West really in the position to take the high moral ground viz-a-viz the failings of the DDR?

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Captain Scarlet's avatar

Clearly you don’t have a clue..

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TheDukeofAlba's avatar

I remember in the 80s visiting E. Berlin as a member of US Army and seeing buildings that still had bullet damage from the war. Remarkable, especially considering that East Berlin in many ways was regarded as a “show window” of the Communist world.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

that sounds pretty cool

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Euterpe's avatar

I visited this church a number of years ago and remember being quite moved to read about the rebuilding. Old photographs were used along with computer assisted design and a lot of manual working out to restore it as close to the original as possible.

I have seen rebuilt churches in Russia that had been dynamited by the Bolsheviks before. It has a remoralising effect to know that what has been torn down can be rebuilt.

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Cynthia Perine's avatar

We visited Frauenkirche in 2016. The beauty is so tremendous that we felt practically lifted to heaven itself. It is a wonder!

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Keahi's avatar

Wonderful photos, thank you! The church and monument are a tribute to the indomitable, unbreakable human spirit, and the enduring desire for God in our lives.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

nicely put

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Keahi's avatar

Oh, thanks, Boots! How are you?? Hope you have a lovely Fourth!

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Bootsorourke's avatar

Thank you!

Hope wherever you are spending your time, the sun is shining and you are smiling

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Keahi's avatar

Cool 74 degree day, delightful cloud cover, perfect gardening weather. Usually in the 100s at this time. Loving that climate change! Yes, I am smiling.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

😊

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Alan Segal's avatar

All of the technical wizardry we have at our disposal cannot hope to match the grandeur and visual spirituality of the old church architecture. The modern mega churches just can’t compete from an emotional standpoint. I applaud the efforts to reconstruct these edifices to their original beauty.

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Helen's avatar

That was beautifully expressed. I am not keen on most modern architecture because it feels like it has no soul. I particularly hate the glass and concrete condo towers taking over major cities. Souless edifices.

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Alan Segal's avatar

The solar and windmill farms are another example. The loss of farmland and habitat for a green fantasy is discouraging to say the least.

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Alan Segal's avatar

Thank you. The old saying, “they don’t build them like they used to” applies!

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marlyn's avatar

My mom was 10 minutes out of Dresden when the firebombing started. She was with her younger siblings, hopping trains from Silesia because their home was bombed. Churchill was the biggest POS that walked the earth, at least one of them and I do not understand how he is made out to be a hero. He ORDERED the bombing of Dresden not just once but numerous times, they waited until people came out of their bomb shelters and hit them again, civilians. Absolutely disgusting.

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Captain Scarlet's avatar

The biggest POS was Hitler

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Bootsorourke's avatar

and the other mass murderers that come to mind

Stalin

Mao

Vlad

Pol Pot

Kim Il Sung

Saddam Hussein

Enver Pasha

and Tony Fauci

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marlyn's avatar

No, while he was horrid, so much of what mainstream media and false history says about Hitler is not all true. Churchill was the biggest POS and like The Black Flag above said that Hitler only started bombing London because Churchill bombed Berlin. There is so much more to it. The rabbit holes are so deep and there are so many.

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Jul 3, 2022
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marlyn's avatar

Exactly right. And if we as a species don't smarten up RIGHT NOW, we will end up extinct. The insane 1% who are pushing us toward "the great reset" are not going to succeed IMO, they are just going to push us toward extinction faster and that includes them.

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Quakeress's avatar

Your mom was very lucky. My grandma was a DP and cleared rubble in Munich for some months. We must never forget how horrible, utterly horrible, war is, whether the cause is just or unjust.

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marlyn's avatar

Yes she was. This world is now a clownshow, we live in an insane asylum and tomorrow they are starting up CERN again to unleash some more demons.

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Jul 3, 2022Edited
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marlyn's avatar

There is so much more to that entire war that is completely left out of history. Rabbit holes are so deep and there are so many.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Isn't that the case with every war and conflict? What we heard in school about the Belgian congo is totally different of what really happened. Until I came to the US I had no idea, but here started reading American historians describing what happened. Which is true? probably neither, but certainly not the belgian version.

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marlyn's avatar

Same goes for this latest clown show with Russia and Ukraine. Funny that it isn't mentioned by the lamestream that the US and Nato have been poking Putin since 2014 and he finally retaliated. IMO the spotlight should be on Biden for starting the shitstorm. And Zelensky is a corrupt puppet of the United States. And what about all the US biolabs? I could go on ...

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Bootsorourke's avatar

years ago, Biden was bragging about pushing Ukraine around with American money. Now, when he needs a war to blame everything on and launder money with, it's Ukraine.

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marlyn's avatar

While I don't think for a minute that Trump was out to save the world, Biden is the biggest disaster ever for the US.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

I am glad I got to be this old, without knowing a lot of the crap that has been going on! I suppose this game has been playing for god knows how long. Almost all politicians stand with dirty hands. The few that try to oppose get all the head wind. Or worse. One or other day I pull the plug on the internet so I won't know LOL. No I think I want to know. I want to see them all defeated. Probably have to watch most of that from heaven !

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Bootsorourke's avatar

Are you okay? We need you here!!!✨

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marlyn's avatar

I've been researching the deep state/cabal or whatever you want to call it for close to 4 decades. Now that I'm retired I have more time to continue but when I worked i was good at multi-tasking and could do my work on auto-pilot and listen to whatever interested me at the same time (that is post-internet). Before that we had to search out books, libraries and talks like David Icke. It's been a very loooooong 4 decades and yes been called conspiracy theorist all along. These are NOT "theories" but most people choose to keep their heads up their asses. Sorry ... I'm just fed up with the mass psychosis of the crowds.

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Helen's avatar

Marlyn. I totally agree with your take on the Ukraine war with Russia. I could go on. And I do much to the frustration of friends and family.

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marlyn's avatar

I only talk to those on same side now as half my family doesn't speak to me so doesn't much matter as I don't have to deal with them. Ukraine + scamdemic, we are on opposite sides. Of course I've been the blackest black sheep ever since I was a child and just didn't ever change and quite happy about not being sucked in and brainwashed. They'll have to shoot me before I'll take the jab, better dead than jabbed. And I haven't had covid but most people I know who are jabbed over and over have had covid over and over. Wondering when they will wake up.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

all wars methinks

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

There is a book from a Dutch writer Harry Mulish (het stenen bruidsbed) that describes young soldiers in a plane bombing the city. Chilling book.

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Ralph Schindler's avatar

Love seeing anything about this area of Germany. My wife’s parents and my father all grew up in the Erzgebirge.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

I can't help thinking of my Mom who seeing bombs falling out of the sky in Eiffel as a tiny little kid was unnerved by fireworks for the rest of her life.

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Helen's avatar

My mother in law was a teenager in England during the second world War and until the day she passed away at 89, she hated the sound of sirens. It reminded her of the air raid warnings to seek shelter.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

Yes. That must have been horrible.

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Guttermouth's avatar

My grandmother saw the first airplane of her life when British fighters flew over her northern Irish village on its way to refuel.

No one knew such machines existed and they thought it was the rapture and locked themselves in the church to wait out the winged demons.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

Germany has so many amazing churches. Thank you for sharing such beauty with us.

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Charlotte's avatar

The wall came down in 1989 and the summer of 1990 I went on a driving trip with my then German boyfriend (future husband) through the DDR. I remember going through Karl Marx Stadt (later Chemnitz) and how people peered suspiciously behind their curtains to look at the car.

One of my college classmates a couple of years later moved to Berlin and we went to visit her. We went to the coolest bar- there were about 15 round tables and each of them numbered. And there was one phone in the middle, the phone was heavy phone from the 1940's - black and very cool. You could call the different tables to people you fancied and then flirt with them without them being able to be sure who you were talking to. It was a remnant that they had kept alive from the East.

I also visited Dresden and this church during the reconstruction process right after the fall of the wall. The tour guide was still very bitter at the Americans for having bombed Dresden and he told us right out loud. I'm actually an enormous fan of old architecture (including that in Germany) and watched as they tore down many beautiful buildings in Hamburg (the commissioner could be bribed to make the denkmal shutz (protection order) disappear).

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TRM's avatar

"It's a good thing we won this war or we'd be charged as war criminals" - USA Air force General Curtis Lemay

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Bootsorourke's avatar

I'm now also curious about the protest. was there supposed to be one. Or was that sarcasm about what should be happening.

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4Dbark's avatar

“destroyed in the notorious Allied air raid of February 1945.” Yes. So sorry that the Nazis hadn’t surrendered before the bombings. Same with the Japanese at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

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BriBaby's avatar

Thank you, concisely well stated.

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Phil Davis's avatar

Dresden: The little known Europe's Hiroshima.

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Wanda's avatar

Not a world traveler. Thank you kindly for sharing, very much enjoyed.

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Scott's avatar

Fantastic that the church was rebuilt.

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cmpalmer75's avatar

I'm glad it was rebuilt.

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