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Sathanas Juggernaut's avatar

Oh, I just noticed! They're claiming natural immunity is "artificially" ARTIFICIALLY!!! reducing C19 case rate in the (non-vax) group.

Natural immunity! NATURAL! ARTIFICIALLY! Do they even understand English?

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hoppah's avatar

And now you know why the core of a Lefty education is the abuse and destruction of language and meaning. We have suborned the creation of a population utterly incapable of parsing even the simplest and most blatant of contradictions.

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Harry Vederchi's avatar

Forced monopoly turns people stupid (lefty) by protecting them from reality.

The elite proudly disdain reality, that's for the lower class.

That's why the lefty despise the lower classes.

Separate school from State.

And healthcare too.

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Lillia Gajewski's avatar

Welcome to the Brave New World.

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Darby Shaw's avatar

Ha ha! Good point!

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Brian Mowrey's avatar

They think "row" means argument. So, no.

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Guttermouth's avatar

Oh, they understand it, they just hate it because it's white supremacist, colonialist garbage.

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Joseph Carroll's avatar

As someone who works with the public every single day running a large retail operation (we have not closed for a single day), I can personally attest that the vaccinated are far more likely to hide, avoid contact with others and exhibit all manners of neurotic behaviors. In general, they appeared frightened and desperate for the next edict to tell them how to think & behave. The unvaccinated are, in general, healthy, vibrant and free of neurotic behaviors. They live as though nothing has changed. The same tends to hold true for masked vs. unmasked. In fact, our sales personnel, by mid May of 2020, learned that a masked customer was about 80% less likely to make a purchase than an unmasked customer. From a real world standpoint, it's obvious that those who have chosen to go about their lives normally, unafraid of the latest seasonal flu have fared well over the past 18 months. Those who are unable to think for themselves have fared badly and will most likely fare worse as the horrible advice they have been given begins to manifest itself in increasing sickness.

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Rob D's avatar

All I can say is wow. And your point is made clearly by some of the additions to your comment. No one ever got sick until March of 2020. No one ever died before March of 2020. There was never a pandemic in history until March of 2020. We always wore masks and got shots for everything before March of 2020. No one's immune system ever worked before March of 2020 (Yes I'm being sarcastic to prove that people are NOT thinking for themselves) We always obeyed just *one* so-called "Doctor" standing behind a podium changing their story every few days in prior "outbreaks" of illness (and banned all other viewpoints from 100's of highly educated professionals). We always banned every kind of alternative treatment for illness. And I could go on and on and on in my sarcastic rant. Yes Joseph, you are right... "unable to think for themselves" is an absolute truth. If people didn't have FB, "mainstream" news, and a government literally being run by Pharmaceutical companies to think for them and terrify them over the last almost 2 years this would have been a non-event. There are myriads of examples of this in communities that do not participate in these insane false rags posing as media in today's world. In my not so humble opinion.

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Oct 29, 2021
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Ralph Schindler's avatar

Huh. Hadn’t thought of that idea: climate emergency lockdowns. I’d say that’s nuts, but before “15 days to flatten the curve” I’d have thought the past 18months+ behavior was nuts too. So, I’ll start watching for signs of that too. Sheesh.

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Richard Seager's avatar

They're already talking them. Check out the moron by the name of George Monbiot who writes for the Guardian.

I'm a climate scientist myself, but am starting to wonder how bad things really are, there seems to be a motive for liars. That makes me suspicious.

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coords1306's avatar

'unable to think for themselves' I think this harsh. If your news consumption has you locked in on the universal vaccination message, complete with all the tragic stories of families suffering losses, it's tough not to go along with it. And on the flip side there have been people that are old enough that perhaps they should get the vaccine, but the news they watch have downplayed it. Its not easy for many to just get up and decide to be a scientist and read all the studies, and even if you do, there are studies going both ways. So who do you trust? Who have you trusted in the past?

I think we all need to fight this impulse in us that everybody who disagrees with me must be stupid, or sheep, or corrupt.

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Joseph Carroll's avatar

That's a point well taken. However, the ability to think critically and question the narrative from corrupt politicions, public health officials, felonious pharmaceutical companies and corporate idiots is exactly the point.

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coords1306's avatar

I'm mulling on my 5 and 7 year old. My father-in-law is a virologist. I was fine with getting myself vaccinated and was getting to a post-covid life then Delta scared me back into my shell. Now I've been immersing myself in Covid content. And I can say I'm thoroughly confused and unsure of what to trust but it probably doesn't matter. The die is already cast on what we'll be doing with our kids.

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abrown95's avatar

I usually do not butt into someone else's business, but please do not give your children these shots. If they catch covid, the odds of them dying is minuscule and it's proven that they have mild cases. You're weighing this small risk versus a completely unknown one because we have no idea what long-term effects there are for the shots, not to mention the risk of heart issues for teens and young adults that are coming to the forefront. And it's already proven that the vaxx'd can spread covid, so it's not like you'll be protecting anyone. A savage Mama Bear will be coming out if anyone attempts to coerce my children into getting them.

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abrown95's avatar

I'd also like to add that if they are injured by these shots, you have absolutely no recourse because nobody can be held liable. They will have to deal with the injuries for the rest of their lives.

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coords1306's avatar

I'm absolutely against the mandates. For a while I was wishy washy with professions like Teachers. But if they should at least be able to opt to be tested or be able to demonstrate natural immunity.

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Cetera's avatar

Agreed. Any time we see no acknowledgement of natural immunity in new government policy, given the sizeable evidence that it's superior than the 'immunity' via these vaccines, we know that the policy is *not* about public health and safety.

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Z-Twig's avatar

Even if we were 99.9% sure that these vaccines were long-term safe (and we're not, not even close), it still wouldn't make sense to vax kids since covid itself is such a low risk for them.

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coords1306's avatar

When you read the articles from NPR, NYT, WP, etc. they tack on concerns about long covid and MIS-C and transmission. (The transmission one makes my head spin per brilliant sentence from eugyppius an article or two back.) Then there is the circle we're in. Both of our families are very pro-vaccine and so most likely will all go with it.

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Z-Twig's avatar

I hear you - my circle is very left-leaning as well and there's a ton of pressure for me to get vaxxed and to vax my kids (age 12 and 17). But I'm not going to do it. I've decided that this is a hill worth dying on. If we give in now, then what's next - what if they decide that everyone needs to take anti-depressants in order to reduce crime and violence? This really feels to me like an important moment in history and we need to remain true to our convictions. Stay strong!

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uknownartist's avatar

Likewise I’m not one to butt in on someone’s business, but you might find this post on the FDAs risk benefit analysis of interest

https://tobyrogers.substack.com/p/ten-red-flags-in-the-fdas-risk-benefit

I don’t know how long you’ve been around here, I’ve only recently came across eugyppius myself but I’d encourage you to read some of the people mentioned and linked to in the comments. There’s some fantastic analysis and commentary about and it’s important to get your information from as wide a range as possible to my mind. We may be reaching the point where the vaccine narrative is starting to crumble if the British government are starting to admit its not as effective as they made out, albeit in footnotes and omissions of inconvenient detail, so best not to act in haste.

If they’re generally healthy your kids are at virtually zero risk from getting even seriously ill and better of without the vaccine given what I’m reading on substack.

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abrown95's avatar

Of course the media is pushing that angle. They want to scare parents into giving their kids these shots. For some reason it is imperative that TPTB get a certain % of the population vaxx'd. I just recovered from a mild case of covid. I've had friends ask me if I'm worried about long term effects. I said no, because I'm back to 100% and I trust my God-given immune system more than a man-made one.

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Stephen's avatar

Read "Autopsy of a Pandemic" by Julius Ruechel. One point he makes is that young healthy people (and 'young' here means under 40), who are at very little risk of severe illness (even less than the flu for the younger), should not lockdown (or take the vaccine). This demographic should get and spread the virus to quickly move society toward herd immunity. THAT is how we protect the frail and vulnerable. Had covid policy been about public health, we would have done that last year.

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Stephen's avatar

NPR, NYT, WP and the rest of corporate media are as captured as the CDC and Fauci. They serve the interests of big pharma, not your interests and they are the champions of the fearmongering that drives the whole thing. It's enemy territory. Get Out!

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Stephen's avatar

There is a saying: "To a mouse, cheese is cheese. That's how mouse traps work." Be careful to not make this mistake in the form "a virus is a virus" or "a vaccine is a vaccine". The illusion of SAMENESS is cast by using the same word 'vaccine'. Don't let it fool you. You must argue with your family members that these vaccines are DIFFERENT than the rest and explain why. Make them aware of VAERS data as well, which is where one dramatic "difference" emerges.

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Barbara's avatar

I can verify the loss of taste and smell happened to me for a few months after Covid, but I felt just fine otherwise.

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Gail Finke's avatar

Why would you vaccinate children that age? I don't see any reason to do it at all. I'm not being argumentative, I would like to know what reasons you consider makes it seem like a good idea.

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Nadine Carroll's avatar

Getting a vaccine on the kid's list gives it legal immunity. They can't milk the current EUAs forever. They absolutely need legal immunity before they bring the so-called "FDA approved" vaccine, Biontech's Comirnaty, to market.

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coords1306's avatar

My wife is a rule follower and she has every reason to be. She has followed the rules her entire life and has done very well. So even though she'll agree that statistically it probably doesn't make them that much safer, she wants to know we dotted every 'i', crossed every 't'. We played it by the book. And upon a week after first shot we'll start relaxing about playing unmasked inside with wider groups than just family, in time for the holidays.

She is more concerned about long-term effects of infection than the vaccine. Long Covid. MIS-C. Brain Fog.

Currently, I suspect the optimal decision is to treat it as a childhood disease like we used to do with Chicken Pox before they had vax for that. But I do not have enough conviction at the moment to say no to vaccination.

What sucks is if you get unlucky you can be wrong either way and left second guessing. If they get myocarditis I'll be regretting my lacking conviction. If they had to go to the hospital from infection I'd regret being the reason they weren't vaccinated and not sure we'd ever be the same. I think most likely they'll be fine either way.

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Eppure si muove's avatar

My wife is a rule follower as well, but luckily she recognizes when I know more than her on a topic. As Z-Twig suggested, I believe this is the Hill to die on.

Your logic (and I do agree is logical) is based on the assumption that the vaccine has equal or lower risk than the virus, however this is wherein the error lies. We do not, in absolute terms, know the short term effects as the data are untrustworthy. However, what the limited data (VAERS and myocarditis studies) suggest is that the vaccine is much more dangerous for children (unprecedented number of deaths and adverse reaction in VAERS and 4-6 times more likely to be hospitalized for myocarditis than COVID for ANY reason).

Additionally, the rates of serious adverse reactions based on the FDA's own, limited studies, is ~0.4%, which you should compare to rates of hospitalization due to COVID of 0.0008% (8 in 100,000, see the CDC's own data: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html.) Considering that they are guaranteed a ticket in the vaccine reaction 'lottery' (whereas they may not get covid) and that based on those numbers they are 500x (50,000%) more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine (this is of course comparing serious reaction to hospitalization, which are not the same thing. However, we also know that adverse reactions are grossly under-reported (5%, 30%,?)). Some friends of ours had both daughters jabbed and the older, on the second jab, had a seizure and was hospitalized for a half day)

Let's not forget that we have no idea what long term effects of either the vaccine or virus may be? Concentrating of vaccine in ovaries? Spike protein toxicity (see related studies)? Hell even the nanolipid component and/or adjuvants may be dangerous.

I'd recommend you listen to Bret Weinstein and Heather Heyning (Dark horse podcast) for addition perspective of the known and unknown mechanisms.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" - Ben Franklin

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Freedom fighter's avatar

My two children, 7th & 9th grade did not miss one day fo school last year…. Not even to quarantine. This year, no mask, no contact tracing for quarantines. They attend a school with 3,500 kids where maybe 5% wear masks. Almost 2 yrs in and we are fine. We never stopped living and pushed back on masks. I say this to hopefully give you confidence that there is more hype to this virus. It still has a 99.9% survival rate. There is a more sinister plan in the works….

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Fear's avatar

I hope your sojourn here convinces you to not poison your children. I currently have Four family members losing 20+ year fantastic careers in medicine over these short term dangerous gene therapies. They are not vaccines. Yourself, your wife, and least of all your children are effectively at zero risk. There are many easy to follow simple treatment protocols to follow (flccc.net) if you are the least bit concerned for yourself or your wife. My spouse has been directly caring for covid patients since this madness began. If you are not very elderly and frail OR morbidly obese you do not need to worry in the least.

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Cetera's avatar

I know what you mean about not knowing who to trust anymore, especially since there appears to be scant attention paid to long covid in studies and in the healthcare industry.

One tidbit you may not have heard is that the doctors who are going against the edicts and treating covid infections are saying that early treatment appears to prevent the effects of long-covid. I believe one of the interviews where it's discussed is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0

I'm continually frustrated by the lack of good data though. The politicisation of this 'pandemic' and 'science' is sick. It shouldn't be this hard.

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Z-Twig's avatar

I have a lot of rule-followers around me as well. And I think it made sense to follow the rules up until recently. The Dems, who make the rules we follow, used to be rational. Then Trump came along and broke them. Suddenly they were instinctively against anything he was for, and vice-versa. 10 years ago Dems were in favor of relatively strict border control, then Trump came along, and since he was also in favor of it, the Dems went 180 degrees the other way. He made them irrational.

I think the fact that Trump - a loudmouth womanizer TV show host - beat HRC was just too much for them to handle, and they went crazy. I don't think he was the only cause - there were signs they were heading in this direction years ago - but Trump accelerated it.

TDS is a real thing. I've seen it with my own eyes - smart people who suddenly can't think straight, and who believe what the media tells them even though the data right in front of their noses shows otherwise.

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Barbara's avatar

You do know 1/3 of the country has likely had Covid by now. The supposed long haul symptoms are rare, except for temporary loss of taste/smell.

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The BarefootHealer's avatar

Its a decision to be sure. Im a parent too. For me, it was a simple thought process for deciding about my family-

What is the absolute risk ratio from catching c19 vs the absolute risk of a vaccine raction.

What are the longterm known side effects of c19? Vs What are the longterm known side effects from the vaccine? For me the consequences of the vaccine, meant if I was wrong, she would pay a much higher price, than if I was wrong about her natural exposure to the virus.

My husband and I were in a similar situation, getting to the point where we were fighting about it.

Then I asked him what type of information he needed to see to feel confident in making a decision. He said he needed figures, hard data numbers, NOT the wordy, subjective, literature. So I asked him to look at Pandata.org

That had data that helped him to see why I was skeptical and hesitant. The type of information we need to be able to make decisions, can be different for each of us.

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uknownartist's avatar

There’s even a possibility that they are vaccinated and you have to take them to hospital. You can get unlucky in all sorts of ways. Yeah, it sucks!

I don’t have children myself, so you have a whole level of decision making to do that I don’t understand but I’m sure you’ll make the choice that’s right for you and your family

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toolate's avatar

you have seen the recent studies that vaccination doesn't prevent long covid, right?

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Jeff - Separate Country of WA's avatar

Dennis - another great source for information is Alex Berenson's Substack. He publishes some very thought provoking articles. Also - if you have time, look up Dr. Ryan Cole on Rumble. If you want to take a deep dive and learn who is controlling the narrative, watch "Monopoly, Who Owns the World". I wish you the best. Jeff

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coords1306's avatar

Berenson is how I found this one. I don't agree with everywhere Berenson takes his arguments but think he raises a lot of good questions and concerns. On Twitter I saw someone say if you saw Rogan and Dr. Gupta you ought to see Roban and Berenson. And here I am.

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Z-Twig's avatar

You've been red-pilled! Prepare to have a lot of your previously held beliefs challenged. I was a lefty Dem all my life until about 5 years ago. Now I'm an Independent. I was raised thinking that all R's were stupid, selfish, horrible people, and I believed this up until recently. Now I realize that there are good and bad people on both side of the aisle. And in fact, I now think party loyalty is the root of a lot of our country's problems. My friends and family think I've been brainwashed, when I feel like I've gotten un-brainwashed. I still believe the same core beliefs I always have, I just now realize that having blind loyalty to a party is more about loyalty than about issues. Dems vs R's is like Yankees vs Red Sox - you choose a team early in life and you become loyal to that team, regardless of whether you actually agree with how the team behaves.

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Lorenzo Casaccia's avatar

You have been following a similar path as me then I guess (even though I have gone through "conversion" of sorts after being nauseated by the excess of wokeism - I am very immersed in US & West Coast culture)

I myself got vaccinated as soon as I had a slot on the premise the vaccines would basically wipe out the whole thing: infections, sickness, etc (I was not too worried about myself personally and had gone through summer 2020 like nothing had happened). I assumed after that all measures would drop.

Once that was not the case, I started to dig deeper. I am quite used due to personal/educational/professional background to look at data, challenge assumptions, deal with changed understandings of the world and such.

It's ok. Changing views is fine. Being able to see things through is a positive attribute

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skintnick's avatar

And bad cattitude is a must-read too. And Rounding the Earth. IMO.

I am astonished (Dennis) that someone who has perused this substack and Berenson's can possibly be so blase about his young children taking this v19x. To my mind the risk/benefit analysis swings against v19x for healthy people somewhere between 60 and 70 years old.

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Igor Chudov's avatar

Giving your kids the Covid shot is the ultimate insanity. There is literally NO reward and nearly infinite risk. Do not sacrifice your children "for the good of your country", this is a sacrifice that is completely devoid of ACTUAL societal benefit. The risks your small children are facing from covid vaccine are nearly infinite and the risk from Covid, nearly zero.

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Gail Finke's avatar

I wouldn’t say the risks are infinite, but by all accounts they are higher than Covid. The “long Covid” scare seems to be just that-a scare-and no different from the rare side effects of flu or strep. No one is terrified of those. The long term effects of these vaccines are not known. Signing a child up for that, when the known risks of the virus are so slight, makes no sense to me.

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Stoichastic's avatar

"Infinite" is clearly an exaggeration, but if they require boosters every 6 months for the terms of their natural lives, that's close enough to infinite as to be indistinguishable.

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Gregg Anthony's avatar

A Pediatrician friend last week saw an obese 10year old. HE ordered some blood work and asked the mother what the familys covid experience was. She told them that her and her husband had Covid on March 7th. But the son was never sick and never tested. So the Doctor ordered an antibody test. The kid still has a high level of covid antibodies over 6 months after the parents infection. Just something to think about for your kids. Obviously its your choice and you know your familys health but if you really look at the kids numbers the numbers of asymptomatic cases are probably really close to the vaccines efficacy anyway.

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Stoichastic's avatar

The first AE I found in our local database was a 12 year old boy bleeding from his nose, his ass and vomiting blood, with a pulmonary embolism and tachycardia for added fun.

All people will say about that is it's rare and resolves itself.

It's like they have lost all sense of perspective and empathy.

It horrified me so much I had to write about it.

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chavoc's avatar

Yep. I'm sure "It's rare" is very comforting to the people it happens to and is a far cry from "safe and effective"

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hoppah's avatar

Well at least he didn’t get COVID and kill Grandma!!! *sigh*

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OliveTrees's avatar

Keep in mind, the Pfizer study on 5-11 year olds that they recently presented to the FDA was based on a mere few thousand kids, over 2 months.

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Stoichastic's avatar

I thought it was ~1500 kids?

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OliveTrees's avatar

Yeah, I just checked. 1,518 children in the treatment group.

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Oct 29, 2021
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Richard Seager's avatar

I'm not sure how it can be efficacious even over two months. But no doubt all the control group, who likely had something else than saline, have now been vaccinated.

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chavoc's avatar

Here is a fun hypothetical. Would you trust someone convicted multiple times for involuntary manslaughter? fraud that resulted in injury and death? Well remove the legal liability construct of "corporation" and those are the very same people who have now pushed a poorly tested vaccine in to billions of people and whose initial claims have been shown to be inaccurate at best.

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Cetera's avatar

I'm less concerned with unethical pharma companies pushing things on people - that's in their nature, and is to be expected.

The group I'm taking issue with is our governments who are begging for it. I expected better from the top leadership and our own health departments. I was always distrustful of government before, but I never found myself wondering whether they were heartless, evil, or merely ENTIRELY corrupt before. I don't think I can ever go back.

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chavoc's avatar

There has been a lot of that lately, in reality, in the USA anyway, the line between government and corporation has become very thin indeed, in many ways :) I myself, even as pessimistic as I already was on both human nature and institutions of all kinds, have had to re-evaluate my already low opinion.

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Richard Seager's avatar

Robertson was asked here about conscientious objectors on vaccines.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/conscientious-objectors-commemorated

I have him firmly filed in a criminal class along with Ardern, Hipkins, Bloomfield, Wiles, Baker and a few others.

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hoppah's avatar

All they needed was the right financial incentive - pharma dollars - to throw you to the wolves.

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Z-Twig's avatar

Yup - just look at the opioid epidemic - they pretty clearly put profits ahead of public health - no reason to think they've suddenly changed their ways.

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Gail Finke's avatar

The opioid epidemic began because of politicians and activists insisting on undoing long years of medical and pharmaceutical practice.

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Martha's avatar

"My father-in-law is a virologist."

Sounds like you are doing more research than he is. He should know better and start using some critical thinking skills...

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Oct 29, 2021
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Stoichastic's avatar

Bill is not an expert at anything.

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Barbara's avatar

You should know the younger you are, the lower your risk. 94% of Covid related deaths are age 50 and older, with the great majority in ages 65 and up. My husband and I had it a year ago, recovered at home with no treatment and we're both over 65.

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Oct 29, 2021
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coords1306's avatar

Thanks. Same for everyone. We're lucky overall. Easily could work from home. Just want to make the right decisions

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KatLee's avatar

GummiBear was a great follow on Twitter. He does very thorough and thoughtful research and has a newer one on children. His preteen daughters want the vax. He himself got the vax but does not want it for his kids. https://gummibear737.substack.com/p/covid-19-and-vaccination-risks-in

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Mos51's avatar

The problem with being gracious with the other side is that one side wants to enjoy life with the freedoms that are ours naturally, and make our own health decisions based on what we think is best based on the evidence, and the other side is looking for a fascist rule based on a made up emergency.

The time for graciousness ended about a year ago. Nobody has claimed that people can't hide at home, wear masks all day long, and get as many shots as they want. You can't say the same about the other side.

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coords1306's avatar

I guess thats the deal when conflict escalates. Perhaps Newsom overplayed the mandate hand and people will begin to de-escalate. Hopefully.

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Mos51's avatar

Also, I apologize if I came across as being a jerk to you. That wasn't my intent and I understand the point you were making and your comments are certainly rational and respectful. If the people on the other side were like you there would be no real issues here.

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Vanda Salvini's avatar

While I agree with your comments in general, I know some well educated people who are very internet savvy but are still glued, no, hypnotized by certain notable MSM outlets. Where I live there were emergency field hospitals built that were never used. The only thing they were good for was to enrich the government friends who got the contracts to put them up. People should be able to see that the funeral homes don't have long waiting lists, we don't have overflowing cemetaries and there is no casket shortage. A lot of it does come down to choice. Chose to live in fear or not, whatever or however severe the current storm in your life is.

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Scott's avatar

Exactly. My wife and I followed the guidelines when Covid first came out, but quickly realized that something didn't seem right. We educated ourselves on Covid from every source we could find. We are both highly educated people and know how to weed out fearmongering and propaganda from legitimate information/studies. I know I have been exposed multiple times. My 16year old son even tested positive for it after coming home from camp. After a couple of days of laying around he was back to his normal self. Now he has natural immunity. We have been living normal lives since May of 2020. We regularly go to festivals, went on vacation, our kids have been back to school in person since fall of 2020. We dine indoors and outdoors (no masks) have parties with friends. We are unvaxed and refuse to get it. My children will remain unvaxed.

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JJ's avatar

One thing that cannot be argued when it comes to children’s vaccination is the statistics. 99.9973% survive C with their immune system. Out of the 00.0037% that don’t, do we think they were perfectly healthy children with no underlying conditions? Rhetorical question. We have the potential to end this pandemic and get to herd immunity by NOT vaccinating our kids. We would end up with a whole generation with natural immunity to nit only this coronavirus but possibly many more to come. I wish they would start pushing that narrative.

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skintnick's avatar

If I may hit pick your numbers don't quite add up to 100

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Jeff - Separate Country of WA's avatar

We're from similar camps. I live in Washington State, where there are a lot of Blue Pill liberals. I'm done trying to educate them. We had both of boys at wrestling practice (not sanctioned) all winter. The best way to stay healthy is to expose yourself to germs. It doesn't get much dirtier than wrestling.

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Scott's avatar

The only thing dirtier than wrestling is riding public transportation in San Francisco which I did for many years before leaving California for greener pastures. That is probably a big reason why I haven't gotten sick in years. :)

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Richard Seager's avatar

I doubt that you can pick up a 'virus' from other people. In fact I've gone full 'Terrain theory" and no longer believe that there are viruses. Just RNA which is being recategorized as 'virus'.

And it's the height of Governmental stupidity in a climate crisis to propagandize that public transport is bad which every government in the world has been doing for 2 years, because all the politicians are anti public transport snobs.

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Stoichastic's avatar

Before I read a single study I decided / knew:

1. big pharma does not care about me

2. the government does not care about me

3. the media do not care about me

If I am being coerced into something, then it smells bad.

Still no studies read.

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coords1306's avatar

More and more this attitude is proven correct about our institutions. I don't have great trust for cable news or even NYT and WP. I've been following a couple of Doctors online that I trust and have proven to me to be able to admit they are wrong, and express nuance and difficult positions. Among them, they still are for the vaccine for anybody older than 15. So that was enough to convince me to of vaccination for myself, a 40 year old.

With my kids...the data isn't lining up. I'm trying to read my studies but it's not like I'm a doctor. Even if I find concerning the information it's me 'looking stuff up on the internet' vs. the FDA, CDC, etc. And while I have a similarly skeptical view of our institutions my wife does not.

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hoppah's avatar

Those doctors aren’t mathematicians, apparently. If you’re under 30, your chance of dying of myocarditis from the “vaccine” is much higher than your chance of dying of COVID - and that’s just the overall chance. If you’re *healthy*, as most kids tend to be, the disparity becomes far larger. Shooting kids full of this crap is criminal.

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hoppah's avatar

Well, they do care about you - that is, you’re a product to them. They care about you because if they can get the government to force you to take the “jab” and its endless “boosters”, then they’ll make money off of each. You’re a gold mine, and they are swinging the pick, and if you don’t like it, in come the goons to make you.

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hoppah's avatar

“ I think this harsh. If your news consumption has you locked in on the universal vaccination message, complete with all the tragic stories of families suffering losses, it's tough not to go along with it.” - pretty much the textbook definition of “unable to think for themselves”.

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Joseph Carroll's avatar

He has a point and I think it's valid. I wonder what the level of fear would be if the media wasn't outright censoring all of the deaths & injuries from the deadliest vaccination campaign in human history?

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Cetera's avatar

If only it were just the media... Big Tech has not only been doing it, but outright SAYING that they're doing it:

'"Our policies don't allow claims that COVID-19 vaccines kill or seriously harm people," a Facebook spokesperson said in a statement on Monday.

YouTube confirmed that it had taken the same step later in the day.'

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/facebook-takes-down-bolsonaro-video-over-false-vaccine-claim-2021-10-25/

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Richard Seager's avatar

The Medical Council of NZ will also not allow its doctors to say the same.

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Cetera's avatar

Don't get me started on the situation here in NZ. It's infuriating... and what's more, it's PERSONALLY infuriating since my own health is at stake while they play goddamn politics, their game of choice clearly being who's-the-better-tyrant.

I've contemplated trying to import IVM from India for an added layer of personal security... but I wouldn't put it past the government to start prosecuting people attempting to import prescription-only medication. And they've already said they're intercepting increasingly large numbers of IVM packages at customs.

And the fact I can't even trust that I'll get access to proper healthcare in a first-world country... infuriating.

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coords1306's avatar

Point taken.

But I bet a lot of people who are vaccine-hesitant, or anti-vax, aren't exactly pinnacles of 'thinking for themselves' either. Many on both sides go with what their camp is going with. I'm struggling because the arguments against vaccination for children are convincing to me but there is a momentum to that decision that I won't be able to stop.

At the least, I can speak up when I hear people blaming the unvaccinated in developed nations for this lab leaked pandemic that goes unchecked in the undeveloped world while pharmaceuticals clutch their patents

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hoppah's avatar

India, with 4x our population yet with a miniscule part of their population “jabbed”, seems to be faring just fine: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

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Brian Mowrey's avatar

Outside of war and famine, adults are supposed to keep the world functioning to a baseline extent that supports the rearing of children - that's the only way societies survive. Abraham had the excuse that he was literally ordered by his God. Anyone who sacrifices their children's health and future happiness at the command of an "expert" has failed their "one job."

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coords1306's avatar

While I don't think vaccinating kids is optimal I don't think it's sacrificing their health. In the short term, they'll gain more protection. in the long term, their immunity may have a lower ceiling. But who knows, maybe it'll be enough, or maybe other treatments will emerge to render the difference moot.

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abrown95's avatar

That's a lot of maybes to subject young children to something that hasn't been tested long-term and the testing itself is very questionable. Plus, more protection against what? This virus is pretty much a non-factor for children. Would you get a "vaccination" 2x a year so that your common cold only lasts 3 days versus 4? And the shot doesn't keep it from spreading, so there's no community benefit.

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Richard Seager's avatar

Yes vastly more risk from the vaccine for kids than there is from COVID in the wild. In my view that is in fact *infinitely* more risk.

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Charlotte's avatar

What are your feelings about Original Antigenic Sin? Eugyppius has also discussed this. It would argue that if your children actually get the shots before first getting natural immunity- they could be triggering a cycle of endless infections of covid 19 in their future instead of possibly lifelong immunity. Do you think it might benefit your children to have more information than only 10 months of information (which is admittedly hard to even find- we are consistently going to Israel and UK for most of it).

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/original-antigenic-sin

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coords1306's avatar

I'd like to hear a mainstream response to this consideration. I've asked a bit here or there on twitter but haven't heard it yet. For me it tips the scale against vaccination for health children but not enough for me to want to overrule my wife as of yet. But I want to hear more back and forth on it

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Joseph Carroll's avatar

By mainstream, do you mean unscientific and based on how much money Pfizer. Moderna & JJ are stuffing in their pockets in 2021 & 2022? It's not a coincidence that the very best scientists in their fields all agree that we have a bunch of pyschopaths running amok at the present moment. Please show me a reputable scientist that has an IQ above 80 that believes it is wise to introduce a leaky vaccine into the middle of a pandemic or kill 30 times more children with a vaccine that doesn't work than would otherwise be harmed by Coronacold, which is less deadly to them than the common flu.

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DanBC's avatar

Good luck with the Mainstream, they have one opinion. Get Jabbed or else you are cancelled! That’s textbook Totalitarianism

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Richard Seager's avatar

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that they have a 99.997% survival rate if infected with SARS-CoV-2

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Brian Mowrey's avatar

"Original antigenic sin" is just the bizarro world version of science's backward antibody obsession. Antibodies ≠ immunity. "Covid-19" is caused by inflammatory responses which are probably worsened by pre-existing antibodies, we just aren't looking at which ones and why.

And to hop to your other reply, how is it some mystery whether directly injecting a spike script into the body / bloodstream is less safe than asymptomatically repelling the infection in the upper respiratory tract with near-zero viral shedding into the bloodstream, as most children do? To prevent the worst outcome of infection (viral shedding into bloodstream) we should skip straight to directly causing that outcome? What possible argument could a pro-Covid-vaxxer offer?

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Charlotte's avatar

What are your feelings about over 50% of the private funding for the FDA and CDC coming from large pharmaceutical companies? Do you think this could bias information from the inception? Have you looked at Sweden and their policies emanating from a Health Ministry which is wholly separate from pharmaceutical companies and the normal political apparatuses?

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coords1306's avatar

I'm a Bernie supporter in favor of single payer that thinks healthcare has been hijacked by corporations. So I don't like it. And it makes me pay more attention when other countries make decisions such as the UK not authorizing for < 15 year olds? (do i have that right).

For the longest time as much as I was skeptical the concept of vaccine equals smaller controlled dose of infection was enough for me to accept it. That assumption of mine has been put back in play by the fact the protein seems like it may be a key component in the damage done by the disease. The differences between vaccine and natural maybe alleviate concern for collateral damage but only to give away some effect in immunity. Want more information.

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uknownartist's avatar

In the UK, the government own committee advised against vaccination of 12 to 15 year olds, but we went ahead and approved it anyway. Kind of sinister I thought. Take up is low, “cases” are high, and the press have only just twigged that this is because the kids went back to school in September. Who was it who said it was a disease of institutions???

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DanBC's avatar

Well, socialized medicine is a clusterfuck too. I’m in Canada, trust me, Bernie’s model is not the panacea it is being sold as. Socialized medicine means everyone is treated the same. Badly! Waits for surgery is measured in months. You want a Family doctor? Forgedaboudit. The UKs NIH is no better, if not worse.

Be careful what you wish for.

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Richard Seager's avatar

The UK says one thing one day and another thing the other day. The National Health Service is under attack by US Corporates (so is ours in NZ) and although about two weeks ago the Govt said kids would not be getting vaxxed they backed down more or less the very next day.

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Brian Mowrey's avatar

Sorry, I over-condensed my comment. I was talking about the lockdowns - the minute the expert advice crossed into "let's harm your kids and take their futures away!" the experts should no longer have been listened to. So, anyone listening to them after March 2020 has no excuse. The harms to children were all visible and obvious in advance as well as the fact that they outstripped any potential threat from the virus. It's not the scammer's fault if someone gets scammed.

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coords1306's avatar

I'm not ready to go down all the anti-vax literature...at least not this week.

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jlemd's avatar

Your point is very well taken. Death is painful and harsh. As with anything, "it's different when it's personal". I'm 68. I will die. Below age 75 covid has a very low mortality rate. From a global and public health standpoint, this disease could and should have burned through the population , immunizing those most at risk, using early treatment protocols for all, and we would have been left with a virus. This may sound uncaring, but I do care. This is life.

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Eric Fuleftists's avatar

Confusion comes from an inability to weight the data, to assign priorities to categories, including the framework or context of the data as well as the data itself. It sounds like you are unable to do this very well, and/or have not been trained to do so. It involves dreaded "hierarchies", something which current generations cannot do because they've been marinated at school with equality in all things great and small. With equality on the brain, categories immediately lose importance, since everything is equal with everything else. Then the only available conceptual methodology is to pick and choose your data to match the pre-approved holy narrative.

In the case of these vaccines, the essential underlying issues are as follows: vaccines are completely experimental, empirical testing is years away from being complete, informed consent is neither required nor even being discussed, vaccine producers are legally free of any responsibility from negative consequences, and a worldwide fiat has suddenly descended on all nations that has never been done before in history. Note carefully that absolutely none of these issues requires a degree in biomedical research. Once you have that framework as context, all the so-called confusing details can be easily categorized and weighted as to their relevance, significance, completeness, and truthfulness. I strongly urge you to try it before those for whom you are responsible are subject to serious harm.

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Ki's avatar

Every time I see someone in a mask I assume they are vaccinated and still terrified because they know their vaccine doesn't work. It's incredibly sad and I'm not sure all of them will return to normal functioning society.

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DanBC's avatar

My favourite sheep are the solo drivers in cars, fully masked. Have even seen cyclists, face masked. This is Victoria BC, capital of progress is mandatory socialism. These people are sadly sick in the head

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Stoichastic's avatar

It's heart breaking.

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Stoichastic's avatar

What I see most of the time is people wearing masks under their chins, touching them to lift them over their mouth / nose as I approach, then lowering them again after I have passed.

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hoppah's avatar

I sort of appreciate it when mindless drones mark themselves so effectively so I can tell right away what I’m dealing with, before wasting my time with their drivel.

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UngaTheGreat's avatar

Thank you for sharing 🙏🏽

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Ron Dellaguardia's avatar

Excellent assessment.

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Bash's avatar

There are quite a few people who were deathly scared of the pandemic at first, and who over time and a lot of data/evidence have relaxed their views. For quite a few, vaccination was a pandemic Rubicon. Personally, I got my shots and then put the whole thing behind me. There are a huge number of people like that; albeit most are likely to keep their heads down and just go along to get along. Me on the other hand, I get in trouble almost everywhere I go, because I consider it a social responsibility to resist the idiotic rules as much as I can

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Coaster's avatar

Unsurprisingly, they left out some testing factors that might go the other way. Like the fact that students and hospital patients only need to be tested if they're unvaccinated.

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eugyppius's avatar

indeed. i assume the astronomical case rate among children is down to school antigen testing programs. same thing here in Germany.

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Hidden Markov Respecter's avatar

In U.S. the end of December will see an announced phase-out of the original unreliable RT-PCR testing, to be supplanted by something the government says is less unreliable. I wonder which way this ailing government will wish for the numbers to go in the post-seasonal Corona peak. Will they try to deliver Biden a campaign promise W, or will they try to hold the fear levels to where mid-term mail-in balloting remains in permanent Leftist force?

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Ki's avatar

They could have taken the easy out in May (via dropping all testing or lowering the cycle) when the spring seasonal wave came back down and cheered Biden's "100 Days to Mask Up" policy but they didn't take that offramp which leads me to believe the only goal is total destruction (see: all of Biden's other policies).

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Krispy Kris's avatar

I am in Germany as well. They are cranking up the terror wheel about new infections, and no the 2G rule just to go to buy food.

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Richard Seager's avatar

Germany has a lot invested in the Pharmaceutical industry. Just like the US.

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Richard Seager's avatar

But you also have the Hamburg Syndrome for the waverers.

https://www.filmfestival.gr/en/movie-tiff/movie/13358

The first skepticism that I registered to this 'virus' was from friends in Germany. At the time I was masking up and fearing a virus that I no longer consider to be real. In fact I don't consider any virus to be real.

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paranoid goy's avatar

The whole issue becomes moot, once you ask": "who tests what". All their statistics rely on nonsense tests that prove nothing. PCR is not even a test, and those pathetic quick test strips can find covidiocy even inside its own sterile packet, not to mention papayas, goats, motor oil and coca cola.

The entire thing is bovine scat, beginning to end. Viva Koch!

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Igor Chudov's avatar

Let's not pile on the UKHSA. They are actually heroes, supplying us with valuable, unbiased, hard-to-find information. Their results do not depend on "cause of death reporting" and use all deaths occurring in 28 days of covid test. It slightly overstates deaths, but allows us to compare "apples with apples" regarding vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

I wrote an article about this yesterday also:

https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/uk-data-shows-the-vaxxed-are-superspreaders

I have a section that debunks criticisms of UKHSA data. I also explain why UKHSA adds these inane disclaimers. It is because they are forced to.

The corporate media and the Big Pharma hate these reports because "they provide fodder for antivaxxers". No one stops for a second and asks, are we sure that vax still seems like such a good idea. They just want it shut down.

So the UKHSA bureaucrats are heroes who inform us with data that is hard to obtain and has enormous value.

The "UK Vaccine hell" is not unique to UK and UK is not an especially bad country. The UK is only unique because it has UKHSA and these amazing reports. Other countries are probably doing just as badly, but the reports gloss over that.

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eugyppius's avatar

i think this is a profoundly naive view of what is happening here. they are publishing these numbers primarily because earlier, they looked really good for the vaccines. now that the statistics have turned bad, they‘ve become a clear inconvenience for them, but discontinuing the release of this information would merely draw attention to the phenomenon. so they surround the numbers with disingenuous disclaimers.

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eugyppius's avatar

the reason other countries, like mine, don‘t release anything like these detailed breakdowns, is they learned from the advance examples of Israeli MOH and UKHSA what would happen, and avoided painting themselves into this particular corner.

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Igor Chudov's avatar

Well, let's see what will happen. I am afraid that they will be discontinued.

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KRW's avatar

Simply can't be - the vaccines are perfectly "safe and effective"!!!!

The vaccine cult won't admit they've been had until this gets a whole lot worse.

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DanBC's avatar

So, to that end, read this opinion columnist screed from the Vancouver Sun (Canada). This is the shameful level of propaganda/Mass Psychosis that is alive and well here. BTW, the jab rate here is 85% and climbing in BC. History will repeat itself here, I can hardly wait for schadenfreude for the holiest of holy health officials to Splain themselves when cases continue to spike despite the high jab rate.

Hold your nose reading this!

https://vancouversun.com/news/ian-mulgrew-respected-anti-vaxxers-a-worrying-omen

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Helen's avatar

Just read the article. Typical Vancouver Sun. The only good part was reading the comments. It was great to see the majority didn't agree with the article. Are people starting to finally wake up?

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Richard Seager's avatar

"She was forced into quarantine on two separate occasions on North Brother Island, in New York’s East River, and was kept there for a total of 26 years before she died isolated in 1938."

The Witch.

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Richard Seager's avatar

Vancouver also at the head of gender nonsense. And it's where Rebel News is based too, a somewhat untrustworthy crowd making hay while the sun shines.

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DanBC's avatar

No Ezra is in Toronto

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Richard Seager's avatar

Oh my mistake then. Seems they have a strong Vancouver connection too though?

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DanBC's avatar

Rebel has an Aussie consultant, who did great work publicizing their fascist lockdowns. Ezra's reporters are hit and miss, but I love Ezra's outfit, direction, and existence

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Richard Seager's avatar

The Australian consultant/reporter is Avi Yemeni. I don't want to take away from Avi's work but I have in the last few days come across some material, other than his Tommy Robinson stuff*, that makes me go 'huh'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1sVzeeiLyk

* which I was prepared to write off as just your typical Zionist right winger, many of whom support Robinson/Lennon.

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Helen's avatar

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I wonder what Albert Einstein would think lol.

In B.C. they are already registering children aged 5 to 11 for the jab. Of course it will be approved.

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DanBC's avatar

Why are they not looking? Because it doesn't support the narrative. The sheeple believe that Vaccines are vaccines. Magical solutions that work. Because, thats why.

The sheep are blind, and non-critical thinkers, thoroughly trusting in the "experts".

The "experts" are a combination of corrupt and ignorant, leading the sheep down the path. Like the Pied Piper.

I say bring it on, the disaster will happen, we can't stop it, but we can look after our own immediate family, but not extended family. This is destroying families and friendships, and the vaxxed are blind, deaf and dumb. I see it as the start of brain damage caused by the jab, only to get worse.

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Richard Seager's avatar

I have a belief that it won't get that bad but understand your position.

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DanBC's avatar

Well, who really knows. But GVB, Malone and Zelenko have been correct so far, step by step. Yeadon's predictions are apocalyptic, but his reasoning to get to that point makes too much sense. I'm not saying I want that, its just that it seems inevitable at this point, with the thorough ignorance of our "experts".

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hoppah's avatar

I’m betting that like all cults, no matter how bad it gets, they won’t admit it. https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/mass-murder/jonestown-massacre/

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Oct 29, 2021
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DanBC's avatar

Maybe they can, but it would take a dramatic Black Swan event. Like, massive deaths of kids from the vax?

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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

Thanks very much for your work in exposing these liars.

It has been frighteningly revealing to see the utter rot in elite institution.

We need an Evelyn Waugh to amusingly point out the nakedness of our elite emperors.

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Curwalker's avatar

> There are likely to be systematic differences in who chooses to be tested and the COVID risk of people who are vaccinated.

This sentence doesn't even make logical sense.

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hoppah's avatar

It should be obvious that the insane drive to vaccinate all children is an attempt to mask the fact that the vaccines aren’t working well. COVID sweeps through the young without leaving much of a trace - other than a durable natural immunity. Leaving them alone would be disastrous for the permanent income plan of eternal boosters. Filling them all full of this “vaccine” lets the vaccinators claim that their immunity is *due* to the vaccine. WE SAVED THE WORLD! Oh, and we earned billions and billions and billions doing it.

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Cartesearcher's avatar

My wife's brother's and his wife, who also have their 3 adult children and my wife's mother living with them all came down with a "cold" about 10-12 days ago. I asked them if any of them got tested for covid and they thought that I was crazy. They told me that they were all fully vaccinated (about 4.5-5 months ago), so it was impossible that it would be covid and was therefore a cold. I wonder how many vaccinated people have come down with some cold like symptoms and just ignored them because they believe that when it comes to covid they are bulletproof and never bother to get tested. Most people in my country didn't receive their final dose until between June and August. December to February should be quite interesting.

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KRW's avatar

Yes, I keep hearing of this happening, and that doesn't even account for the asymptomatic spreaders. With equal testing, my bet is that there's little difference if any between vaxxed and unvaxxed when it comes to the ability to spread. But since vaxxed are more likely to have fewer symptoms, I call them the stealth super spreaders.

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Mos51's avatar

I call them plague rats.

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Frank Ch. Eigler's avatar

The 18-29 group is approaching breakeven too. 50% two weeks ago, 33% last week, 27% this week in terms of per-capita unvax/vax case rate deltas.

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Frank Ch. Eigler's avatar

lawd, it was 81% four weeks ago, 68% three weeks ago.

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Curwalker's avatar

" people who are unvaccinated may have had past COVID-19 infection prior to the 4-week reporting period in the tables above, thereby artificially reducing the COVID-19 case rate in this population group, and making comparisons between the 2 groups less valid"

Wouldn't the vaccinated cohort's higher infection rates mean that some in their cohort also "may have had past COVID-19 infection prior to the 4-week reporting period"? And wouldn't the implications of this be very very bad?

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Brian Mowrey's avatar

The Covid-vaccinated were being test-confirmed infected at a lower per-capita rate during the summer wave. It's a bit messy because the only breakdown, as far as I know, was in the data for Delta-sequenced cases. Total cases for 1 or more doses and unvaccinated were about equal as of end of August (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1014926/Technical_Briefing_22_21_09_02.pdf Table 5 top two rows), despite England being at 70% at least 1 dose by then (so, there were 2.3X more Covid-vaccinated than unvaccinated; thus the infections per capita was less than half for the Covid-vaccinated up to that point). There's definitely a lot of immune debt to make up after hitting 0 efficacy, so you can't distinguish "relative negative efficacy" from "absolute negative efficacy" until the all-time infected rate goes south (as measured, say, by random sampling for N protein antibodies).

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statsman's avatar

Every time you start to write, my eyes glaze over. Most of the time I have no idea what you are talking about.

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statsman's avatar

I've read your post 3 times now, and it is still unclear what your point is.

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Brian Mowrey's avatar

My point is that the Security Agency's claim, "people who are unvaccinated may have had past COVID-19 infection prior to the 4-week reporting period in the tables above, thereby artificially reducing the COVID-19 case rate in this population group, and making comparisons between the 2 groups less valid" is supported by the available, but messy data for England as of end of August.

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Brooke's avatar

“Unadjusted” meaning they don’t want to adjust them.

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Frank Ch. Eigler's avatar

no it means they REALLY want to adjust them

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Sarajevo's avatar

Beautiful graph. Cases, cases, cases!

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Thoughts About Stuff's avatar

This would be really embarrassing for them—if anyone outside of us ever read about it.

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Fix's avatar

Yes, great work again! So do all of these cases mean a trend of increases in hospitalizations/deaths among vaccinated in coming weeks/months too? Is there just a delay of those numbers, or will we see a persistence in the data "showing" that the vaccines still offer "protection" from severest outcome?

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eugyppius's avatar

i think they'll still be protected, but as the infection numbers get worse and vaxx fades more, their ratio vs. unvaccinated will get less and less advantageous.

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Charlotte's avatar

I think it's interesting that you think they will still be afforded some protection. Why wouldn't the protection go to zero? It might take time, but that's where I would think it would go. How long would that take? Plus, we have 2 other factors to consider- the placebo effect with vaccinated individuals who fervently believe their shots work and 2- the possible collapse of the N antibody which could lead to multiple re-infections and eventual death.

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Fredo's avatar

If anything polling, at least in the states, seems to indicate that unvaxxed are unafraid of COVID, and also don’t buy into NPIs. It would seem likely this means the unvaxxed would engage in more social behaviors that are far more “risky” because they may be ignoring the rules. Anecdotally, this at least matches what I’ve personally experienced. Most that I have talked to about this, on the vaxxed side, are way more likely to avoid unnecessary contact with people, even friends. And when they do associate it is in accordance with the rules. Not all mind you, but most. However, on the unvaxxed side, I have yet to meet anyone that gave a shit about masks or SD, and nay getting the jab when forced by work, or wearing a mask when forced.

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