463 Comments
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York Luethje's avatar

Isn’t it by now axiomatic that people with the job title ‘ethicist’ exemplify the banality of evil?

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Dr. K's avatar

Yep. Fraudci's wife or Art Caplan come immediately to mind. Two of the wrongest, least-ethical people I know.

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York Luethje's avatar

Ezekiel Emanuel. Thinks you shouldn’t live past 75. He’ll turn 75 on September 6th 2032. I have set a reminder. Petty? You bet.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

gates says there are too many people on the planet, yet he has children, and one of them is pregnant. Obviously it is not THEIR kind of people they want to get rid of.

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Michael Hall's avatar

Yes - he must really be upset that the African countries have had the least Covid and vaccine deaths in the world because they refused his deadly vaccines this time after they were tricked into taking his fetal death causing "vaccines" in the past.

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Aznasimage's avatar

Our elite probably have no affinity towards Africa. They would have preferred a more developed Country to have shown such successful mistrust.

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Rascal Nick Of's avatar

Yes. If these hypocrites are so interested in depopulation, they should set the example and start with themselves.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

If the Depopulators need any help depopulating them self I'm ready to help them .

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Guy St Hilaire's avatar

Absolutely ! and in Canada they have established all the tools .

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

In Canada there is an over population ,but by just one guy ,his name is Trudeau .

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Evil Harry's avatar

Fidels little boy, Castreau, is a real gem isn't he.

Maybe he should be buried under tons of rock and crushed until he actually becomes one.

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FHL Badenhorst's avatar

Medical Tourism of the Canuck kind

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Tom Ford's avatar

Emmanuel is similar to Buyx in the banality of his discourse. What is it that comes into play at 75, that sets off the death alarm? Is it physical, or mental disability, an expiration of social usefulness, a selfish spiritual clingyness, or simply the need for state and financial institutions to recoup their i outstanding capital and minimize further expenditures? In any case, obviously only deeply self reflective and degreed bureaucrats are qualified to make these decisions, and will not need to be bothered by vengeful nitpickers in the aftermath.

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Mark's avatar

Most of these people would have seamlessly fit into the governance of the Third Reich.

I’m am not exaggerating. They share many personality traits with those tried at Nuremberg, especially the desire to conform to the larger societal zeitgeist, no matter how questionable.

They do not consider themselves morally responsible for the decisions that they have made, they were only following orders or making decisions that seemed necessary at the time. They believed their own lies and propaganda.

And now that the narrative is falling apart, it’s “Well, we were just doing our jobs” or “we made decisions based on the science “ or “mistakes were made, but it was done in good faith “ and other self serving bullshit.

The fact is that these people, individually and collectively, became criminals.

Their unconstitutional edicts and mandates, obvious lies, incessant propaganda and gaslighting.....all were used to censor and silence opponents, ruin businesses, force unsafe vaccines on the public, and to sicken/kill people.

And they think that they deserve an amnesty???

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Duncan A Turner's avatar

Well put Mark. I didn't have a government job to get paid while "working" from home. I lost money and watched my daughter's mental health spiral downwards.

AMNESTY? No way in hell, I want justice.

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Mark's avatar

Agreed.

And for those who wanted the unvaccinated to be fired and worse, a little vengeance might be in order....

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jean's avatar

Justice, guess we will have to wait on God for that

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Mike B's avatar

That’s exactly what I’m telling everyone since 2021 and no, it’s not an exaggeration. We are literally experiencing the rise of the Fourth Reich which will make the results of the last trial run (1933–45) look like child’s play. After all, this time they attacked 8 billion people all over the globe simultaneously – and most of the victims don’t even realize that we’re in an all-out war for the survival of humankind.

The semiotician and writer Umberto Eco, for example, pointed out this development many years ago:

«We can look wherever we want, in all Western countries, whether in America or Europe, the fascists are gaining more and more power (the left is helping them along) and transforming the countries into surveillance and police states.

Today's fascism no longer has anything to do with that of the past. No uniforms, goose stepping, or Hitler salutes. No, it is modern, cleverly packaged and is sold to us with PR. But the spirit behind it, total control and exploitation, censorship, media alignment, lies, oppression and wars of aggression: the results are the same. Most people do not see this and are completely blinded by propaganda.«

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jan van ruth's avatar

well said!

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LovinTexas's avatar

Emily Oster: Mistakes were made, but "we didn't know."

You chose not to know.

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York Luethje's avatar

Social usefulness iirc.

According to whom?

Not you, serf.

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Athena McLean's avatar

Emmanuel embodies today's utillitarianism -- and God forgive me, the ignorance of an unwitting public.

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

York: I remember that nonsense from "Zeke," (brother of Barack's buddy Rahm).

We have to wait over 9 years? Sigh.

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Beverley's avatar

Has anyone notified Kissinger, Schwab and David Rockefeller Jr of this theory?

Apparently not.

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York Luethje's avatar

Doesn’t apply to Top. Men.

Obviously.

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Steenroid's avatar

One can hope. I would never tempt fate.

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Irena's avatar

Meh. He never said people over 75 should be lined up against a wall and shot. He simply made the eminently sensible point that, on average, quality of life tends to decline quite precipitously at right around that age, and that it's very far from obvious that continuing beyond that point is a net gain. But, our death-phobic culture (which is precisely what gave us lockdown and mandates) cannot accept that.

Yes, of course, it's on average. There are some mentally and physically vigorous 85-year-olds. That's not your typical 85-year-old, though.

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Beverley's avatar

People can have opinions on whatever they like, but it’s not the decision of anyone who should live past what age.

It’s a dangerous territory and we are clearly moving towards it.

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Irena's avatar

He was never going to make that "decision" for anyone. We're all going to die. I'd much rather die *before* becoming immobile, demented, or similar. The alternative is dying *after* becoming one of those things. Not dying is not an option.

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

I suggest you re-read his statement for clarity, Irena.

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Irena's avatar

I read his Atlantic article. I don't know about any other/different statement.

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SCA's avatar

Caplan--the pomposity of the professional ethicist writ large. First a nice big pin to deflate the windbag, and then some vigorous scorn and contempt, applied daily until symptoms abate.

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z28.310's avatar

Chief ethicist. Chief of diversity. During Rogan's interview with Hotez in 2019, Hotez pushed the idea that companies like Amazon need to have a chief scientist so they can make decisions on which books to ban.

Diseased academia taking over corporations.

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York Luethje's avatar

Was that the interview where Rogan was bullying him for being a disgusting fat little piggie with no business to opine on public health issues?

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charles's avatar

Rogan was not rude and was not bullying. Here is the clip, decide for yourself!

https://youtu.be/KazOib0F4Y4

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CMCM's avatar

Good grief, Rogan made Hotez reveal the mental midget he really is. As someone else said, that cheshire cat smile just makes him look like a total idiot. And to think this guy has power in our health care system. Yikes! And UGH! Totally disgusting POS.

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z28.310's avatar

Rogan poked at him on that issue, deservedly.

Whenever Hotez flashes his cheshire cat smile I think about how grateful I am to be unvaxxed.

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Sirka Sie's avatar

🤣

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Kathleen Janoski's avatar

Hotez is a nutter.

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Aodh Séamus's avatar

These Oster and Buyx types give me "Eichmann in Jerusalem" vibes, though Eugy's description of the Head Girl archetype nails it.

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cl's avatar

our new mngr at work is such a type. sadly the previous one left due to seizures, and another died suddenly of no cause at 30.

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

"Died suddenly" of "no cause"? Lol.

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cl's avatar

same as mum's best friend, but that was " undiagnosed heart condition".

same as a teen who was another friend's son's friend. and a colleagues daughter's friend, "strep a". I am up to 60. there are many clots and many heart conditions, parkinsons, osteo and transverse myelitis and other falls and funny turns. plus deaths from cancer recurring.

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carolyn kostopoulos's avatar

but now, thanks to Musk, you can post these deaths on twitter.

i know 4 people who died and i suspect two cancers from the shots

it's hard watching people drop dead, except that they abandoned and disowned you for being right all along

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Jjule's avatar

I was booted permanently from Twitter for an inane comment I made about the

Climate Crisis fools gluing themselves to the tarmac in Germany.

I said, “ leave em”

I supposably was promoting violence…

I wrote 2 xs to be reinstated.

No luck

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Jjule's avatar

Oh my god. 60!

That has to be so stressful and heartbreaking.

Especially since the lie is still so strong, you see the truth, whilst others refuse to.

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cl's avatar

The selection of pertinent bits of information for sensemaking is always contentious i guess, a self fulfilling closed loop of knowing....

but yes, am seeing alot in personal circles. Many people have said they won't take any more just lately. I wonder if the scepticism will extend to the next try from "our trusted media."

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cl's avatar

quite 🥺

lovely lovely boy. Good friend's son.

post mortem "inconclusive".

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

When will we ever again be able to trust our "personal physicians"?

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Sirka Sie's avatar

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to

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SaHiB's avatar

Not until the changes the Flexner report instituted are reversed.

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CMCM's avatar

Never.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Of course taylor ,the new death of no cause is now in the many 1000 ens,or is it in the millions ? Sometime I feel I will dye of a no cause death myself soon .Ahh let me have some more boosters ,so I will dye of a cause after all .

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Sirka Sie's avatar

Yeah, total passive aggressive bitches/mean girls

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Jjule's avatar

Agreed

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Athena McLean's avatar

Sadly it was not always the case. Soon after the establishment of the Hasting Center, Paul Ramsey in 1970 wrote The Patient as Person, to warn against the growing technocracy on the human person. Instead the Utililitarian perspectives soon dominated and have continued to do so through Hastings Center activities and the strong influence of Peter Singer, sidelining the unique value of human beings. A bonus and a propos to the transhumanists!

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Mike B's avatar

That’s what I was thinking about, too. Just punched in this quick comment:

“Medical/bio-ethicist” is just a fancy word for the more truthful term “eugenicist”. Peter Singer comes to mind as another infamous example because he rejects any belief in the sanctity of life. According to experts on bio-ethics like him, human life does have some value (best measured, of course, in an economic framework, e.g. QALYs) — but neither does it belong to God nor were humans created in the image of God.

In other words, pretty much the same BS spouted by that little turd Noah Yuval Harakiri (or whatshisname) who keeps ranting about humans as “hackable animals” with very limited usefulness and shelf life — whereas he and his ilk consider themselves to be demigods on their way to full membership status.

Bio-ethicists like Singer think voluntary euthanasia is morally justified, and he argues in favor of its legalization under certain conditions — a highly slippery slope as we have learned (again) in the past 3 years. In terms of abortion, experts like Singer value “personal choice” (where one of the persons involved doesn’t get a vote) and “happiness” (a pretty shallow, short lived, and inconsequential emotion).

To quote a distant (Tierra del Fuego) philosopher friend: «God is dead and man has no soul (and thus no freedom, because there’s no transcendence). It is obvious to me that as soon as you set the wrong ontological and metaphysical premises, the shit doesn’t just hit the proverbial fan — it comes roaring towards you like a veritable tsunami!

Nietzsche could still play around because in his time the world around him gave the static framework for his musings. His successors, especially Foucault and the other French post-Marxists, are mainstream today, there is no more supporting framework. “God is dead” now becomes “there will be no more man” or even “ there must be no more man”!»

Indeed, there must only be “Homo Deus”.

Or in the famous words of W. B. Yeats:

«Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.»

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Athena McLean's avatar

Yes. And for these reasons, I have lost all hope, at least in things human.

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aj's avatar

the rock of our salvation is the best foundation for hope

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Paula's avatar

I will have to read that. Dean Koontz' novel "One Door Away From Heaven." introduced me to the writing of Wesley Smith who wrote an introduction to the book. He too has a common theme of the threat of Utilitarian ethics (so called).

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Athena McLean's avatar

Yes. He was appalled at how fully euthanasia has been embraced. He talks of Hunan Exceptionalism, that places the emphasis on the importance of the suffering of humans over the suffering of all species. While he counters Singer, I am still unconvinced of the validity of his perspective.

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Jacqueline W's avatar

For me Peter Singer is the example here. Effectively founded "animal rights" with all its absurd consequences, most recently the daft vegans quest to stop predators killing prey. Yet at the same time he advocates killing disabled children.

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Athena McLean's avatar

And people with dementia, although his own mother was momentarily a wake-up call to him.

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Adrian Ryan's avatar

I don’t know if it is the banality of evil they exemplify, although I get what you are pointing at. I wonder if it isn’t the evils of bureaucracy, banal or otherwise, that we are witnessing. It is very easy for people to push decisions while hidden in a bureaucracy, it is a sort of gang mentality that produces bullying tactics. I wonder if this is why we all feel such visceral reactions to these apologists for the dreadful Covid policy pushers. They are seeking to excuse their own bullying, and bad enough as bullying is psychologically, this time their actions have lead to a catastrophe what is still unfolding years later, with no end in sight.

I fall short of seeking to exact vengeance for mistakes and against individuals who were caught up in the bureaucracy system that has crafted them (individuals and decisions) but I do reserve the right to exact justice against those who orchestrated the system and silence dissent. Those that went along with it, the baying mob, may suffer loss of position and reputation, so be it, actions have consequences. And if there are no consequences those lessons this Buyx is declaring need to be learned will never be because the only lessons will be learned is that they can get away with it again.

Whatever about decisions made in the early “fog of war”, (and I don’t agree the data wasn’t there to make different decisions, I saw it and did...) right now the evidence is overwhelming that, literally, all the policy was wrong, fatally so, and the chief one was unleashing an untried and untested experimental bio pharma substance on the World, often mandated (or effectively mandated), universally nudge theory pushed, and thus continuing the mainstream narrative support and even doubling down is beyond redemption.

First of all these real disinformation pushers have to come out and admit they were wrong, no excuses or mitigation or fables about new data emerging and the science changing, just mea culpa and stop all of the policy. Only then can we begin the investigation into what truly happened. I will leave you will this thought thought, how is it possible that the bureaucracy could get every single decision wrong? What are the odds of that without design?

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Dr. K's avatar

Jeff Childers wrote a more-than-thoughtful piece about this. Has caused me to think long and hard: https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/a-great-big-new-year-saturday-december. Worth the read...a different take on this that explains much of what you note.

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Athena McLean's avatar

I agree with you on all counts but still wonder if those in charge were actually irrremedably stupid (the C student, my late husband would argue, who would get into power so we would all sufffer) or whether this boggles our minds because the dimension of their sins is so immense and palpable.

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York Luethje's avatar

Having sat in many a bureaucratic meeting, making a nuisance of myself, I am not inclined to give the cogs a pass. You may not be able to change things but you are not required to just roll over. Plus these people have pretty ironclad job security so there aren’t any real consequences.

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Athena McLean's avatar

Recognizing what they are, of course, does not give them permission to continue. I just am boggled by their effectiveness to date and honestly feel paralyzed beyond my ability to critique them. I am truly amazed at their freedom to remain so confident in their views.

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York Luethje's avatar

Don’t let them demoralise you. The more conformist an organisation is internally, the less able it is to detect and remedy errors. Failure is then inevitable, although it may take a long time.

Our job is to be ready when that happens.

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Athena McLean's avatar

Your words are very encouraging. Something I direly need and for which I am truly grateful.

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Ted's avatar

Is Arendt turning over in her grave, or is she simply nodding wisely in agreement with your observation, York?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Ted I think Arendt was cremated ,so she can't turn over in her grave .

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York Luethje's avatar

Head in hand, muttering “nicht schon wieder diese Scheiße*”.

*not this shit again

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Hallo York ,sie haben recht ,das wuerde nicht gut schmecken . JOE

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Mike B's avatar

“Medical/bio-ethicist” is just a fancy word for the more truthful term “eugenicist”. Peter Singer comes to mind as another infamous example because he rejects any belief in the sanctity of life. According to experts on bio-ethics like him, human life does have some value (best measured, of course, in an economic framework, e.g. QALYs) — but neither does it belong to God nor were humans created in the image of God.

In other words, pretty much the same BS spouted by that little turd Noah Yuval Harakiri (or whatshisname) who keeps ranting about humans as “hackable animals” with very limited usefulness and shelf life — whereas he and his ilk consider themselves to be demigods on their way to full membership status.

Bio-ethicists like Singer think voluntary euthanasia is morally justified, and he argues in favor of its legalization under certain conditions — a highly slippery slope as we have learned (again) in the past 3 years. In terms of abortion, experts like Singer value “personal choice” (where one of the persons involved doesn’t get a vote) and “happiness” (a pretty shallow, short lived, and inconsequential emotion).

To quote a distant (Tierra del Fuego) philosopher friend: «God is dead and man has no soul (and thus no freedom, because there’s no transcendence). It is obvious to me that as soon as you set the wrong ontological and metaphysical premises, the shit doesn’t just hit the proverbial fan — it comes roaring towards you like a veritable tsunami!

Nietzsche could still play around because in his time the world around him gave the static framework for his musings. His successors, especially Foucault and the other French post-Marxists, are mainstream today, there is no more supporting framework. “God is dead” now becomes “there will be no more man” or even “ there must be no more man”!»

Indeed, there must only be “Homo Deus”.

Or in the famous words of W. B. Yeats:

«Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.»

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York Luethje's avatar

Yep. It’s almost part of the job description of an ethicist to treat human beings as means, not ends. From there it’s only a small turn of the Ferris wheel and you’re Orson Wells in ‘The Third Man’, looking down on the people and only seeing so many ants.

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Mike B's avatar

I see you too are subscribed to Dr. McCullough’s Substack? I agree that there are parallels between Harry Lime with his callous disregard for the death toll his operation causes and certain present day Americans running “medical charities” (B&MG) and their buddies in the BigPharMafia.

But while Harry Lime was only in it for the money, the ill-gotten financial gains are only an added bonus for the current crop of eugenicist maniacs and philanthropaths. Their ultimate goal is to thin the human herd down to more easily controllable numbers.

«The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.»

~ Frank Zappa

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Forbes's avatar

Anyone with the banal job title of 'ethicist' exemplifies evil incarnate, is how I'd have put it. FWIW.

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Athena McLean's avatar

Yes. He is a bioethicist of another ilk, and not surprisingly was a fellow at The Ramsey Institute - a center that followed the philosophy of Paul Ramsey, the nemisis of utilitarianism.

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carol ann's avatar

We need to support such people if we can rather than putting our energy into hate and anger however understandable

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User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jan 4, 2023
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Athena McLean's avatar

Indeed. Ethics cn be professionalized (as in law) or standardized and have nothing to do with morality, all while posing....

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R3000's avatar

These jackasses tried to force me to take poison and now they want to be treated cordially?

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jim peden's avatar

They also orchestrated the demonisation of those who were concerned about the lack of evidence supporting these interventions. If our society can't accept that there's been serious irresponsibility and totalitarian behaviour, then we are doomed to repeat it.

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Thomas's avatar

Amen!

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Thomas's avatar

Exactly...Well said!

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

R 3000 one could cordially hang them .

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aj's avatar

they were apparatchiks for a crime against humanity. They hoped you hadn't noticed.

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Dr. Hubris's avatar

... and they would like "amnesty" for past, present and future crimes :P...

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SCA's avatar

After some deep, honest retrospection, I'd like a little hanging, drawing and quartering, and if that for some baffling reason is off the table, let's go with some honestly retrospective evidence-driven criminal trials and a hearty helping of long prison terms. Since I ain't vengeful or nothing.

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Warmek's avatar

Beheading works. I have an axe. I'll do this job for free.

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SCA's avatar

My problem with beheading is it's so clean and quick, done well.

Done badly--OK, *that'll* work. If you promise not to take pride in your craft and hack away like an amateur...

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Jjule's avatar

Some of these criminals, Gates, Fauci,Soros, Klaus, Trudeau, Etc deserve the dull sword hack.

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SCA's avatar

I feel there might be some great suitability to repeated puncture wounds with rusty screwdrivers. Kind of an apt metaphor, under all the circumstances...

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Jjule's avatar

That works.

There must be painful consequences, period.

Or it will continue full speed.

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Rikard's avatar

Garrotte using wet stips of leather should do then. The leahter strips are wound tight around the neck of the condemned, who is seated in the garrotte chair. The strips also lope around a rod behind the chair accessible through a small hole directly behind the neck of the one seated.

As the leather dries, the strips contract. A slow, tortuously outdrawn death by strangualation.

For extreme cases, the headman's assistants would slice off the eyebrows, eyelids, nose, lips and cheeks of the condemned, to increase the suffering.

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Duncan A Turner's avatar

Unfortunately someone has probably made some notes about your proposal above,. Pur you on a "hate drimes" or "domestic terrorist" list. But I have had enough of it. Somewhere, someday somebody;s head has to roll over the COVID holocaust. It needs to go down in history not as the COVID pandemic but as what it really was - the COVID holocaust,

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Rikard's avatar

In all probability, I've been on such a list since the early 1990s.

Sweden's Socialist Democratic party has a long tradition of using state-funded private foundations and unions as thought police.

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Jjule's avatar

Agreed.

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Jjule's avatar

There ya go.

Inexpensive.

Tidy

Just let them sit there in the public square, slow suffer. Just like they’ve done to the vax injured.

The extra accoutrements, reserved for the top psychopaths in the cabal.

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SCA's avatar

Well, I always strive to be tidy (though I fail often), and would rather avoid a whole pile of rubbish when one piece is neater. That garrotte is so elegant--why vulgarize the procedure?

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Jjule's avatar

Some deserve a little more pain.

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SCA's avatar

I feel the dignity of the executioner should be preserved, and the moral stature of those employing him.

Of course I struggle against the tide to maintain that moral stature of mine.

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Notyours's avatar

I'd rather have to clean my firearm than an axe. In exchange, I'll cover the costs of the ammo.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Mek, We could also give them a super booster right into their black heart .Sadly they already killed millions ,but we can only kill them once .So far we are still on the receiving end .

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Paula's avatar

A few good hits with the hammer and those tumbril wheels are as good as new.

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SCA's avatar

I come from a tradition of never throwing out anything that might possibly, in the future, come in handy, and I love when that prudence is validated.

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Sirka Sie's avatar

Oh my God me too. I have a pick axe, axe, baseball bat, a Criss, fishing hooks, skipping ropes……you name it at my entrance….ya never know!

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SCA's avatar

You're the neighbor I dream of.

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Sirka Sie's avatar

Oh and a dog, a dog that still has his nerds!

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Paula's avatar

"Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do. Or do without."

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SCA's avatar

I'm not so big on the doing without part. Thrift and prudence, but not grim frugality.

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Paula's avatar

I too have my limits. The doing without part is often as temporary as can be.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Once I wear everything out I will go naked ,that's what I call prudence .

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Paula's avatar

If I wear everything out I call it being overdressed.

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Jjule's avatar

Mussolini or William Wallace treatment would be a great way to remind those coming up in the fields, that pain will happen if they dare sell out.

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Zefram's avatar

A little keel hauling is appealing. How many deaths did they cause?

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SCA's avatar

I wouldn't want to miss a minute of their reaction to justice. Full visibility every step of the way.

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Guttermouth's avatar

It's simple. Majority opinion has to shift in favor of vengeance, and the Head Girls will be with us, with all their breathy interviews and Atlantique articles.

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eugyppius's avatar

indeed.

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ChrisC's avatar

There is a great line in the series "Game of Thrones" where the religious zealots tell Circe - "if you don't do what we say, there will be violence". To which she responds, "I choose violence".

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Guttermouth's avatar

Which is an awesome retort if you can back it up, otherwise it's fucking stupid, and Circe always banked on being more powerful than her enemies had calculated and never succeeded when she wasn't.

She was never believable as an underdog. She's a tyrant archetype they occasionally cast as an underdog to humanize her to the audience.

Your comment and reference is still great, though. :)

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BigE's avatar

Atlantique

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Guttermouth's avatar

fun fact- when I first wrote that I was just doing the "que" to give it a pretentiously cosmopolitan air before realizing it made a portmanteau of "antique," so I absolutely cannot take full credit for it and must cede the greater share to chaos.

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BigE's avatar

Brevity is the key to wit.

"Atlantique" says it all about that now prostituted publication.

Sad really. I'm old enough to remember when my subscription was well worth the price.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I never did, but I broke up with NYT and Scientific American and felt the same way.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Since I started reading all the comments here I quit all news services .The news service I get here is priceless and my I.Q. went up and out of sight .

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Freedom Fox's avatar

The application of coercive and manipulative behavioral science, aka The Science (TM) of the pandemic has cautionary terms that inform practitioners of it. Especially government practitioners. "Blowback" and "Backfire." Behavioral Science ethicists - yes, there is such a thing - warn that if governments resort to coercive and manipulative behavioral science to achieve their public policy goals, and if the sacrifices made as a result of the coercion and manipulation are great enough, abusive enough, that the target population will become hostile to the authorities they hold responsible. And may even topple governments that leaned into the psychological deceptions. A factor that governments were advised to seriously weigh the risk-benefit of before abusively applying behaviorism. The Science (TM). And the ethicists warned that in that scenario if the truth of their coercion and manipulation came out leaders would find themselves in peril. Which becomes their justification for control of information, censorship, claiming national security issues. When the truth of it is they control information, censor, for their personal security issues. A distinction they consistently fail to make.

Whereas ethical behaviorism informs authorities that they must maintain trust with target populations. They must recognize and communicate good news as it arises - the virus wasn't as dangerous as feared, PCR tests overstated infections by 90%, etc. And make adjustments to their coercive and manipulative campaigns that reflect the good news. Trust being paramount for good governance. We continue to suffer under bad governance. That is holding onto power only by controlling information. Imagining themselves synonymous with government, rightful rulers, not our public servants we chose as our representatives, who We, The People, hold accountable.

The Blowback and Backfire will be glorious to behold. Hopefully not in a French Revolution sort of way. But a Mussolini and Ceaușescu sort of way holds appeal.

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SimulationCommander's avatar

Exactly! This is the exact type of person that will rail against gay marriage for an entire political career, then turn around and pretend like she's leading the victory parade once the courts come down on the side of gay marriage.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Gay marriage may be all right ,as long as you don't get him pregnant . That is my advice as a hermit .

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Bash's avatar

You do a much better job of articulating these things - so, my question to you is; why have most western societies more or less put Head Girls like Alena into these kinds of positions? I mean, in most cases, as much as I dislike people like this, I am more troubled by the system of rewards which put them in their positions, rather than their individual lack of character, integrity, or personality. Why do we reward this?

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Joao's avatar

It's in the nature of bureaucratic institutions to select for agreeableness, mid-levels of intelligence and conformity.

Cowards like it because they can hide and absolve themselves of responsibility when the "follow all the rules".

The whole system is like this because it couldn't be any other way

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eugyppius's avatar

I think this is basically right, and there's some additional accelerating factors in the educational/credentialing system (which rewards not intelligence but conscientiousness – a key Head Girl trait). And of course beyond a certain point the phenomenon is self-reinforcing, because Head Girls hire more people like themselves, and the non-conformist smart people leave because they can't stand all the busywork, committee meetings, and team-building exercises.

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Aodh Séamus's avatar

It's not a bug but a feature of the system.

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Paula's avatar

And it is always the same damn meeting. I once looked at agenda's from meetings years past and it was the same fucking agenda with the same fucking discussion and the same fucking lack of anything changing. But to blaspheme by suggesting just getting something done and skipping the bull crap only lead to thumb sucking and fetal positions.

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Bird's avatar

How else would they hear themselves use words like 'apologetic openness'?

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Paula's avatar

I've done enough stall mucking to recognize horse shit no matter the wrapping.

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Jjule's avatar

I’m sick of the Word Salad made up word combinations.

All to weasel out of accountability.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Paula Here at the comment section we must be gentle and nice to each other ,because

we are here to fight yrusses and not each other . Auch just now one bit me again I think he tried to swallow me ,where is Fauzzi when I need him .

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Paula's avatar

I am always gentle and nice. Ask my children. No, maybe not them. Ask my friends. Wait, never mind. Ask my family. Whoops they all seem to be busy. But believe me gentle and nice is my middle name.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Thank you Paula all your sins are forgiven ,I hope you forgive mine .JOE

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sturmudgeon's avatar

"believe me gentle and nice" is one heck of a mouthful of a 'middle name'... Glad 'Paula' is your first name... May I stick with that one?

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sturmudgeon's avatar

You and Joao have it covered. Too many do not recognize these points.

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John Davison's avatar

It's similar in the army - at the very top one has the top brass/increasingly political/politicised so when things go wrong they simply blame the underlings but if things go well they're well placed to take the credit.

Meanwhile, at the actual sharp end as it were, the Captains and Lieutenants actually know the value of "awkward buggers" from the ordinaries and ensure they're the ones made the Corporals and Sergeants.

That said, I note a creeping "wokeism" in the army - so even that may change.

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Kathleen Janoski's avatar

Not creeping...it is full blown wokeism in the military now.

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Paula's avatar

Very true and that is very alarming.

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Paula's avatar

I discovered ages ago that it is always best practice to bypass the lower and mid levels of bureaucratic institutions and go right to the top of the "chain of command." Too often those at the lower and middle levels feel they have something to prove and do this by being as petty and miserly and obtuse as possible. The thought of helpful makes them break out in hives. So I ignore the system as easily as it ignores me.

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Warmek's avatar

Upwards failure. They're useless for anything else, but they're just so *nice*. They also make lovely useful idiots for those who desire power over others.

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Bird's avatar

Because round-face-mildly-attractive-mentally-bland young mother-types can't be punished, and apparently also can't participate in logic / justice / firm consequences / glaring truth / solid science.

It is a completely sexist tactic, while ironically trying to pass as female empowerment. Evil organizations are packed with empty place-holders in positions of 'authority' because they constitute no threat to the powers above, and visually masquerade as false friends to the public.

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sturmudgeon's avatar

Hence the massive Twitter firings. Now, if THAT 'virus' spreads to Governments worldwide, paradise would rear its beautiful head... (I know, I know)

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

They put THEMSELVES into these positions. Behind the smiling mask, these girls are cutthroat competitors. (z.B. Nina Jankowicz)

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AM Schimberg's avatar

It starts in middle school student council.

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Duncan A Turner's avatar

The trouble must partly be in the selection ctiteria for these publicly funded "ethicist" position. No amount of education via multiple PhD degrees can make someone ethical. Great people like Vaclav Havel and Lwch Walesa rose up like beautiful blossoms within the fetid dung of their decaying totalitarian regimes. Only they were qualified to make the piercing judgments they did. This current mob do not speak truth to power but rather pre-approved lies to the "mass formation".

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SimulationCommander's avatar

Exactly because they will go along.

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John's avatar

How about no? Or, alternatively, GFY Alena.

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ChrisC's avatar

"it might help, though, is in dissuading future bureaucrats and policy makers from doing anything similar in the future." It's for this reason that the backlash should be severe and disproportionate. No amount of over reaction to what was done to us is too much to make sure that the Fauci's and Biden's of the world think twice before doing this again.

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RioRosie's avatar

I've seen newsreel videos of post WWII: Allied Armies forced villagers who lived near concentration camps to walk through the camps....then bury the dead.

I'm reluctant to make comparisons with Nazis, but this seems to be an occasion where it's valuable to make the comparison. Otherwise the authoritarian villains will never understand.

After what has occurred in the last two years, NO ONE should get off lightly.

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Username's avatar

The authoritarians' "defense" will be that they sincerely had good intentions.

Yeah, well, the Bolsheviks thought they were making the world better by sending capitalists to the Gulag. And no doubt the Nazis thought they were making the world better by sending Jews to the concentration camps.

Good intentions? BFD. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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carolyn kostopoulos's avatar

don't be reluctant. the comparisons are apt. they just failed to go as far as the nazis did but they were on that road and headed in that direction. if the disease had actually been super deadly and the vaccines worked as advertised, they might have gotten away with it

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

ChrisC you write like the terror is behind us ,so now we can hope it will not happen again .The deadly drama is not over it is in progress and the hints the exterminators give us sends cold shivers down my back .We will see that the worst is still in the future for us .As long as evil exists it will do it's job .It can't act any other way ,but to harm .A poison lizard will always bite ,until it's head is cut off .

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ChrisC's avatar

I am definitely not suggesting that the terror is over. I am suggesting that we do, in fact, cut the head off.

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No name here's avatar

"As a Head Girl, though, she believes deeply that conformity is pro-social."

Yep, these "Head Girls" will destroy every civil liberty we have, not just free speech. As long as everyone agrees that we should burn witches, burning witches is a "good thing".

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Vonu's avatar

Would Alena Buyx have found anything wrong with anything that the Third Reich did?

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eugyppius's avatar

I somehow doubt she would warn against the urge to find culprits and praise the importance of self-critcism and reflection in this context.

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Vonu's avatar

In other words, about as much as the J6 committee did with the FBI's actions at the capitol:-)

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

She's a psychopathic narcissist. She would love the attention but want to destroy anyone who criticized her.

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Paul Buxton's avatar

I think we can all agree that some aspects of the Third Reich didn't go well, but there's no need to go all judgemental on it.

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Bird's avatar

Buyx: There is apparently a deep, comprehensive need to find someone to blame for all of the beautiful lamps that we accidentally made from your aunts' and uncles' skin. Now it’s about learning from what didn’t go well and looking to the future with new recommendations for more energy-efficient lamps, and maybe more diversity and inclusiveness in the skin colors that were chosen. All this should remain constructive.

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Paula's avatar

Never, ever, forget the horrors were started from benign intent to better the lives of citizens. My father's aunt was a victim of the Euthanasia programs because she had TB. Nothing holds back progress like people forgetting lighting the world with more efficient skin shade lamps is worth that bundle of shoes stacked mountain high in the corner.

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Vonu's avatar

The Nuremberg trials did better until the convicts got get out of jail (or the noose) cards from the OSS.

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Karin's avatar

Should all have been hanged. My extended family died without compassion or dignity in camps far from home in Bielefeld but these cretins were allowed to return to their pre-War lives.

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Paula's avatar

I agree.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Most or all Reichs, left large numbers of dead bodies behind .What will the body count of the American Reich be ,when they are finished with us ,so far we are still counting .

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Paula's avatar

Very true. The road to Utopia is lined with ash and bones.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

The last three years look more like a concentration camp .than a Reich .If some of us are still alive in ten years ,they can get a better count of the ones still alive .

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Paula's avatar

I mean after all which one of us hasn't been one of the baddies at one time or another?

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Vonu's avatar

It depends on what you mean by "baddies."

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Paula's avatar

It was a tongue in cheek reference to a Mitchell & Webb routine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

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Karin's avatar

I am assuming you wrote this in jest.

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Paul Buxton's avatar

You assume correctly.

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Vonu's avatar

If there isn't a :-), it wasn't in jest.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

LOL

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Realistic's avatar

Of course the guilty vax and lockdown activists want to get off free. It is like a serial killer asking to get put back on the streets. No way they need to be punished so this never happens again.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Often I read ,about the wish or hope this never happens again .That is un realistic thinking .As long as evil doers exist they will be ,well evil doers ,They cant act any other way . Can evil doers be stopped before they do harm ,I don't think so .Any punishment always comes after the act . To prevent harm before it happens ,we would have to be mind readers and we are not .

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Duncan A Turner's avatar

It is not only about the culprits being clearly and publicly brought to justice. It is also about the average citizen obtaining insight that they were duped, manipulated and "nudged" by fake "science" and lying fraudsters and their useful idiots. We need to get to the point that society will demand that the great covid hoax will be taught in modern history alongside the holocaust.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Dear Duncan the words ''they were duped means it happened in the past and that is not correct ,because it is happening right now not just in the past .I'm afraid what is still coming will be worse than the past .

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Vonu's avatar

The time will come when it is quicker to outdraw them.

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Reggie VanderVeen's avatar

Yeah. And it sounds nicer when we say that people who lost their jobs or family members from the jab mandates were just "unfortunate."

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SCA's avatar

Looking forward to a long infliction of reversals of fortune on all these head guys.

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Stevanovitch's avatar

What virtuous sympathy. From narcissists who, BTW, denied the valued ideas of empathy, contrition, repentance, forgiveness and redemption all their lives. Their cup runneth dry. Why is the High Road so rarely chosen? Costs nothing, could make one a hero, solves the problem of our time. Maybe nobody spelled it out for them. And they have my pity if not my judjment. Alas, the hour is late; the time for absolution has sadly passed.

What a convenient time to know Christian principles. Its joyful.

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Lincoln Microphone LLC's avatar

lol @ "medical ethics" on the blackboard... like please

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Jln's avatar

The sociopath usually can rationalize all manner of behavior. People need to face consequences, jobs need to be lost and the guy in your image who kicked the protester in the head should face charges. The protesters were not armed nor were they violent. There was no need to treat them that way. If we allow this to stand they will be running us over with tanks next time.

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Duncan A Turner's avatar

Like in 2023 2hen the "climate lockdowns" start??

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Vanda Salvini's avatar

On the very positive side, this is an admission of guilt. They think they can just tip toe into it.

An NFL player has just suffered a cardiac arrest (around 24 yrs old), Buffalo Bills I think.

2023 is going to be an eventful year.

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California Girl's avatar

If I cannot blame someone with public visibility, does that imply that I must blame myself? And what about the relationship between blame and responsibility? Ms. Buyx is wrong. Perhaps she is trying to protect herself.

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Stevanovitch's avatar

I feel the guilt. It oozes from those who fear their weak complicity. The death throes of the Big Lie.

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Bootsorourke's avatar

I hope so but I doubt it.

She believes she is better than the great unwashed crowd she violated.

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