The level of evil being done here is getting to biblical proportions. Maybe they are playing a manipulation game to get people to take the vax now by threatening a future mandate, and they don't really plan to mandate it. Or maybe this is a trial balloon to see how the populace reacts to the proposal. But if we take the statements of these leaders at face value, they are monstrous villains. To propose to coerce the entire population to take a novel irreversible experimental medicine that acts on the genetic level violates how many laws and principles of medical ethics and human rights? Even if the vax was safe and effective, to mandate it would be wrong. But it is obviously not safe and effective, and these cruel police state tactics and lies show there is a dark agenda at work here.
Can this not be challenged legally? I mean, the government here is violating a lot of laws, isn't it? Aren't there constitutional and human rights laws that should protect you?
there are legal challenges but they never succeed, the courts are totally behind all the suppression measures.
it’s almost surely illegal for bavaria to even ask its employees about vaccination, given our storied medical privacy laws. good luck challenging that anywhere.
Maybe it will be different this time as the judges are also employees of the free state of Bavaria. Some of the Bavarian judges are amongst the unvaccinated.
On second thought, those unvaccinated judges would be prejudiced ("befangen") and therefore banned from deciding on whether any treatment of unvaccinated is unlawful. So your case will be decided by vaccinated judges only. Might be a waste of money to hear them, but pretty soon they will confiscate all your assets anyway to pay your fines for being unvaccinated. So you might as well spend your money on litigation.
I recommed taking only unvaccinated attorneys - they will at least be motivated to give their best.
With "befangen" you are jumping to a conclusion. First of all, anyone´s medical status is private and confidential. There will be no disclosure by any judges as long as they are in their right legal minds, and they might even rule to such effect. So the point is moot.
Medical status is no longer private. Any employee of the state of Bavaria has to disclose it to his employer- how else would the unvaccinated be forced to present PCR tests? Enter any restaurant, hotel or shop, or board a train - you have to disclose your medical status as vaccinated, recovered, or unvaccinated.
The employer of the judges knows that status, namely the free state of Bavaria who would be a party to the proceedings.
I'll grant that "befangen" is a legal opinion. In theory, a court might have a different opinion. Do you think that is likely? The unvaccinated judge really does create case law that applies to him personally so that he has a personal interest in the case- that is practically the definition of "befangen"
How will future historians look back on this "Covid era"? These politicians are so blatantly violating the norms and laws of their countries that are meant to prevent just this kind of medical malpractice and totalitarian power grabs. It is so shocking to me that someone like Olof or Ursula can just "say so", and that is how policy is set. Whatever happened to "checks and balances", to informed consent for medical treatment, and consent of the governed for policy making?
(But that raises another problem -- what if a majority of the people actually support these medical tyranny policies? Opinion polls, if they are to be believed, suggest that many or most people in places like Ireland, UK, Switzerland, Australia support what their governments are going. And look at the recent Canadian election. So, despite anti-jab and anti-vaxpass protests, maybe these leaders feel they have the backing of their people to proceed.)
But that's why all these "advanced democracies" have constitutions and sign treaties on human rights: to prevent just such a tyranny of the majority. The American Founding Fathers warned against the danger of the tyranny of the majority, and tried to build in safeguards in the constitutional system to prevent it. The whole point of the constitution is to say, these are the rules we follow as a society. Medical treatment and experimentation is by informed consent only. Bureaucrats cannot make up hygiene laws that violate basic human rights. Right? But across all these countries, we see leaders violating exactly the laws and norms that are supposed to protect us.
I'm sure they do. But I'd think they're realistic and fearful, too. They realistically know the mob can turn at any time. And they're fearful of that.
So they keep testing the water.
While they can get away with it they will.
While the majority seems to be with them.
We have to swing the majority.
seems hard.
But when we think about it all we have everywhere is minorities 'swinging' the majority - isn't it?
That's the problem.
The sane world being ruined by insane minorities, everywhere.
So if one minority can do then so can we.
It just takes, I think, one slogan, one catch phrase, one meme, one idea that appeals to them and - bang ! they swing the other way.
They seize upon slogans and go with them. Their entire modus operandi you could say.
Like good old mum and dad who admit they don't know what's going on and who's right and who's wrong they live according to the simple slogan: 'better safe than sorry' - and wear a mask, stay indoors, etc.
I guess the whole human race uses 'shorthand' thinking like that to steer by.
And they feel. Don't sell them short. They feel. So the shorthand: 'If it saves one life' means something to them.
That's why I hope the notion - which happens to be a truth - of the Immune System might turn out to be a meme that sinks in with them.
In the first instance it'd be good if they started to see the whole thing in terms of the Immune System because that at least accords with reality.
And then just maybe a slogan may arise from it that they all go with. 'Give the Immune System A Chance' or something maybe.
Yeah, slim hope. But those things: it is possible to 'win' as a minority. Can be done almost instantly on a slogan. Pointing to a reality like Immune Systems surely has to be positive.
They worth going with while we've nothing better surely?
The majority are hypnotized, as during the prelude to the Third Reich. Get a gun, if you can. More importantly, form networks of people who think like you. Guns in and of themselves are useless. Thousands of armed people acting in concert are formidable, even if (God willing) no shot is ever fired.
To put it in perspective, The Canadian Human Rights Museum in Manitoba, requires all visitors to be vaccinated. Try that one on for size. So much for Human Rights in 🇨🇦
Methinks you need to revisit your "50k plans" thesis. The hysteria is well fed from a central source, and there is no escaping it. If there is more designs than one, it will be just a few, not a multitude.
Hear, hear! But what I think is actually happening is that their policies failed, and now they're scared and angry. Scapegoating the unvaxxed is an obvious strategy for them, because it deflects anger from them. It's not working completely, though. You're from CZ, right? I keep reading these articles on Český rozhlas about how health care workers face intimidation, and how the unvaccinated are getting aggressive. Right. Well, when you do your best to demonize one part of the population (and a rather big one, too), don't be surprised when you get some pushback. I'm lucky to have a "recovered" certificate (valid until mid-April), which buys me some time. But the situation is getting crazier and crazier by the day.
Interestingly enough, it appears that Poland and Croatia are the sanest countries in Europe at the moment. I'm not too sure how to explain that.
I hope people push back -- and not just the unvaxxed, but anyone who cares about living in a free society. I've heard about stores, restaurants, etc. that evade the measures by saying "all are welcome" and not checking for vax status. That's a kind of civil disobedience that I think we'll need more of. And it is quite risky for those businesses, because the govt could punish them.
Masks have just been mandated again in the UK for shops and public transport and a couple of quite big national retailers have publicly stated they will not be asking staff to enforce it on the basis that they don’t want to risk their staff being abused if they challenge anyone. Could also be that they think it’s madness and by announcing it will get the business of people who won’t comply. I’ll certainly be shopping in one of them more that I currently do as a result
I think people are getting tired of the whole hysteria, there is only so long it can be kept at a peak. In our part of Canada (Alberta-no say in fed election btw) I have been going maskless with no problem where formerly I would be called out right away! Please God it keeps up. The only thing is they could whip up the hysteria against the unvaxxed I suppose... It is a global evil and pray and resistance may be the only way out of this! ( Maybe they are more prayerful in Poland and Croatia??!! )
No shop is entitled to enforce anything, and I guess that would also be the advice dished out by the legal departments of companies big enough to have them. There would only be liabilities involved, i.e., costs.
Two years ago I was dazed, confused, and afraid of the virus. Then dazed, confused and afraid of my government. No longer dazed and confused. I know who my real friends are. I have defined the enemy, and its collaborators. I am disappointed and very angry. I view my government as a hostile entity. I will not comply. I will not be silent. I am trusting God, and prepared.
This describes me, too, although I admit I am still in the dazed and confused state. It was just a couple weeks ago the Czech government implemented rules unjustly discriminating against the unjabbed, for the explicit purpose of coercing the jab. I am still getting used to the idea that the state is my enemy. It is a new relationship with the government. Before, although not being naive about corruption, I generally tried to give the benefit of the doubt and understanding that policy mistakes might be made by well-intentioned authorities. But now, the govt is out to get me. Where I used to basically be oriented toward following the law, now I feel that a tyrannical government does not need to be followed. They implement unjust laws -- I don't have to follow them. In fact, in the months/years ahead we're going to have to find ways around the evil laws. It feels like the social contract has basically been broken. And not by me. They did it.
I understand. Went through the same thing myself. The turning point for me was when I learned of Ivermectin. The govt prohibit me having it. No harm to them or anyone else. No harm to me. Proven hundreds of thousands of times. Yet they prohibit it.
And then not satisfied with that they prohibit doctors prescribing it.
And then not satisfied with that they prohibit doctors even informing me.
And all that on a background of a total dearth of therapeutic information or measures!
Well said. I too was initially afraid of the virus but now am far more afraid of not only my government but the world government cabal. If you think any other country but yours does not matter, it does. When one crushes freedom, it chips away at all others. The EU is clearly a failed state and these moves smell of desperation. Pray. Plan. Prepare. Resist.
Interesting to read that Australia now has cases of Omicron. Since no unvaxxed people are allowed in or out of the country , how did it spread? Maybe it arrived in the mail because clearly it couldn’t have been carried by a vaccinated individual..........or wait? Could it? I also read yesterday that the person who brought omicron to San Francisco USA was double vaxxed. So like we’re all being told, they’re safe AND effective. The governments’ only lie left is to state that the omicron carrier did not yet have their 3rd or 4th or 5th booster. Soon I suspect we’ll all be measuring time based off of what “variant” is it?
Thx for helping spread the unfiltered information as new trickles in from around the globe. Guess the USA will have to immediately implement travel bans against Australia, Israel (oh wait, that might be anti-Semitic) and The Netherlands. With the 6 passengers per week that travel from So. Africa into the USA sure glad we’ve already implemented travel bans from there. We must remain safe.
I cannot understand why anyone would ever claim a vaccinated person cannot carry a virus.
Excuse my ignorance if that's what it is but doesn't a vaccine merely prompt an immune system into action?
So that when the 'enemy' turns up it is ready to 'fight' the enemy?
Where in that does the enemy not appear?
The enemy is expected to appear.
Only the cards are supposedly stacked in our favour.
I wonder how you can ever say a virus will not appear anywhere when they're ubiquitous, airborne, have been found in the stratosphere even, capable of dormancy etc.
A lot of people have no idea how vax works, or their own immune system. But they claim to revere "the science," and worship its spokesmen. That's a good start, I suppose, unless the spokesmen are charlatans.
How about the possibility that with over 60 trillion different viruses (yes, that’s right, trillion) housed inside our fully functioning microbiome helping keep our immune systems robust and “at the ready” to assist once we receive the next (likely daily) insult, by vaccinating and dumping another toxin into our system, one mammalian (we now see Covid housed in whitetail deer, dogs and cats) option is for our immune system to “release” a variant than can ASSIST us all in moving closer to herd immunity as a mechanism of the continuation of Human survival. Possible?
I think your bottom line there is that eventually it'll work out fine and I think that's completely right. And many epidemiologists and such have tried to say just that. This is the normal situation. It is not apocalyptic.
Even the dumbest of the frightened masses will soon figure out the stupidity of spoting a few cases, all "fully" vaxed, and responding by demanding everyone get the vax. Which clearly doesn't work. Irrationality only survives in the panic. The panic eventually subsides. Always.
This is still mild compared to Canada where Federal workers must be vaccinated, or face termination. Testing for them is not an option. My brother who has been a pilot for 20 years, and a damn good one at that, will loose his job in the coming days for refusing to comply. Just like that, his career is over. And this is spreading to all sectors. Everyone needs to get it through their heads, this has nothing to do with health.
Thank you. He is building his case for a lawsuit down the road. There's no point in suing now, as the courts are all in on this madness. The crazy part is as of November 30, we can't even fly out of here without being jabbed. I wish you all the best, and I hope there's light at the end of this dark tunnel. Keep up your fantastic writing.
Canadian citizens who are unvaccinated are even banned from returning to their country in flagrant violation of international law, I am effectively marooned in the UK.
You are better off in the US! You have the option to live in a state free of these restrictions. Sadly in Canada, there is no push back from any provinces, even Alberta. We are a country void of any opposition.
Hhhmmm I thought you could fly in but only to your final destination -check the government travel website and arrcan . You may not be able to leave though unless you find a private flight to Mex . A lot of Canadians abroad and you- by law -have to be allowed back. Not that they have been following laws....
I am so sorry about your brother. The policy is so inhuman. The powers that be are breaking the social contract -- not just the formal law, but norms, values, ethics, human rights. Even if covid went away right now at this instant, this damage to relationships -- between friends, family, workers and employers, students and schools, in the military -- over policies like masking, distancing and esp. the vax, will take years to heal, if it can be repaired at all. The feelings of anger, betrayal, exploitation are so strong. People like your brother who get fired may rightly feel angry and betrayed -- by his employer who fires him, the state that mandates it, and by the media that pushes it. And then those people who do take the vax even if they don't want to, just to keep their job -- they may also feel angry, betrayed, exploited, and endangered by those who coerced them, which will have a negative effect on job performance. All this leads to unhappy people, social division, lowered productivity, jobs not getting done ... These covid policies are doing so much psychological and social damage.
It is really turning out that the 'best' people, nations, are the 'worst'. Isn't it?
For the 'best' are the most law abiding and reliable in that same respect. The most deferential to authority. The most convinced of the basic correctness of their own society.
The most keen to play their part. Have the greatest innate belief in the all their systems and authorities and experts.
Like good mindless worker ants or termites they function smoothly and build beautiful termite mounds and look to be so wonderfully efficient.
But it turns out they don't know what they're doing. They just 'do', and know not what they do.
Meanwhile, the feisty, irreverent, disorganised, 'corrupt', untrustworthy and somewhat chaotic 'others' make progress, find their way forward like water seeping through the cracks.
It has been like this for decades now. 'They' helped us with pirate DVD's and books and cheap goods (often made with disregard of patent and such) and all our frozen strictures that crippled our own ability to produce quickly and cheaply.
They help to this day in medical fields - doing operations on people who can't get/can't afford within the 'termite mounds'.
The world is built on their backs. A world defined today by the smartphone, I think - and it built by them.
We are defined by rigid, humourless, inflexible, unthinking, cowardly, bullying, inhuman bureaucratic functionaries who've been unseen rotting our system from the inside out all this time. We didn't suspect there were there.
Now we see it in many, many ways. Thank god for that irreverent 'barbarian' outer world.
IN the meanwhile here in the USA some instances are hiring back the laid off people, because hospitals, schools, fire brigades etc were so short in people they could not do else. Several courts have ruled the jabs, the masks, the lockdowns, illegal. Several states are suing the national government. So far all cases were a win.
Now that the virus is down to a common cold, you would think the craze is ending. But it is a race of lemming to die I suppose. All these governments will suffer the consequences, even worse so when the last of the blinded people finally find out how hard they have been had. Like the members of a cult who get de-brainwashed, they will turn in force against their tormenters. I hope and pray that may be soon.
Welcome to Canada, where all of this has already come to pass in my Province. All public sector employees, hospital staff, snd other health care workers must be vaxxed or loose job. There is no option to test. Hospitals have had to close operating rooms as a result of so few staff. Elective surgeries canceled. The unvaxxed cannot get on a plane or train...there is no way to travel, even within the country. Proof of negative tests are not accepted. We are locked down.
Eugyppius, Substack comments section on various pages, including yours, has been very buggy today. Some of us have been unable to reply, like, or expand comments unless we get lucky, even then, only one action before having to refresh the page. I'm contacting the authors to see if y'all have a good link to get help from Substack. I certainly hope this is not only on pages posting covid wrongthink. 🤨Thank you.
I don't know how to work it out but all over the western world I'm sure that in sober legal fact those administrators and department heads, even govt leaders, are acting illegally. For they're all worn to act for the benefit of the people. First and foremost. Isn't it?
And none of this can be shown to be of benefit to the people.
When the accounting gets done there's no doubt whatsoever that the damage bill they've created doesn't top many time over what it would have been if the situation were handled as normal and left alone by them.
So I don't know when or how but I'm very sure their criminality must be seen sooner or later. I just don't know why it is taking so long.
In my own country, my own State, we have a 'for instance'. For here the State Parliament votes every month or something to continue a 'State of Emergency' and that allows them to flount democratic norms, to in effect suspend democracy totally, martial law pertains if they wish, whatever they wish pertains, it is a tyranny if they like (and they do).
But there is no Emergency. And there never was.
Clearly. It can never be shown that the covid thing brought that kind of emergency into being.
Never. Anywhere. It was a canard.
And certainly not came and remained, month after month after month.
No way.
So it was clear over reach and improper conduct on the part of each and every member of parliament that voted for the measure and culpable on the part of every one that did not vote against.
That's the kind of thing I mean. 'First Principles'.
They are charged with protection.
They have brought harm.
That's worse than dereliction of duty in this instance, a whole nation, worse than mere fraud, worse than mere ineptitude, worse than any clumsy mistake.
>I don't know how to work it out but all over the western world I'm sure that in sober legal fact those administrators and department heads, even govt leaders, are acting illegally ... You find the words for it. I'm fairly speechless.
>I thought that meant being converted to extreme far right views?
Really it means what it meant in the movie - seeing things as they really are. It's considered "far right" because the current elite consensus in the US is progressive-left, and they call everything else "far-right". (As an aside, I think left/right is a false dichotomy)
Unlike in the movie, though, seeing things "as they are" in the real world is a non-ending process. You remove one veil only to find out later that what's behind it is just another veil.
In this case, at least, we have a definite minimal goal - survive until we do not have to be jabbed. The whole charade might be just running interference for something more sinister (as your second link suggests), but that should not worry us right now.
Germany stepping up as a contender to austria in the genocide any% speedrun.
Jokes aside tho the absurdities are starting to sting regular people in the eyes and they are seperating into these two groups. On one side the ever growing group of regular people who don't really care but played along when it was "for the greater good" or "protecting the hospitals" who are increasingly exasperated at the absolute state of corona containment.
On the other is the increasingly zealous covid karens constantly berating and annoying everyone about mask wearing and tHe ScIeNcE.
Send her here to Tennessee in USA. We love courageous, reasonable, articulate health care workers! And our Comptroller just smacked down mandates for health care workers. 👍
I just thought of something profound, the reason the USA has not gone full blown dictatorship, like Australia and EU, the 2nd amendment. Back to that good old constitution.
I don’t own a gun, but glad 80% of the US population does. Founding fathers saw the future & the incompetence of Government. Wise for 1776 …
Switzerland requires every home to have a gun, I think. Everyone is part of their defense force. Their approach to covid has seemed fairly rational. Trusting their people probably makes a difference. The US 2nd amendment is under attack because the government doesn't trust the people.
Swiss performance has been very good. O.13% of the population listed as covid fatality, 1.1% case fatality rate, probably due to rational treatment protocols. They have nearly a million listed as recovered, which gives them absolution from the testing and reporting requirements. I'd like to move there but it looks cold.
We have mass shooting everyday, the guns are still here. You'll never take their guns away. It will be a civil war. Maybe the assault rifles, but not the rest.
I used to think guns were the problem, they are not. It’s depression, psych meds (all young ppl in the USA are medicated), lies about history, addition to phones and so much more.
In high school many brought guns and knives to school. I’m a diff generation. No ever got shot or hurt, like now. I look back on all of this, glad this country still has some freedom left.
Sorry, but if you use the words "assault rifles" you already partially bought into their narrative. See, for example, the last paragraph here: https://qr.ae/pGl9Qj
I would like to see some contemporary accurate figures for CFR. Last I saw were from Prof Ioannidis and they were a lot less than any 1.1%. I think. Unless I"m mixing up PFR and CFR.
They're all suspect, of course. I just took cases and deaths from worldometer. Probably in the ballpark. Maybe the Swiss, being very precise about many things, are reporting more accurately than less competent locals like US.
The problem with case rates is many infections are mild and not reported. I would agree real rates are likely much lower, but its unknowable. We should always ask the basis of any statistics. They're often intended to mislead.
As a young man, I had many romantic notions about how I would react when Anne Frank knocked on my door. Now old I realize it's about how one lives with himself based on his response to the knock.
I'm not making excuses for the 'good Germans'. I have no skin in the game as all my ancestors came from Ireland to the US after the famine. Many German people were broken by the Great War. They were busy and distracted with deprivation and runaway inflation during Hitler's rise. IMO, by the time they realized how out of control the Nazis were and how mesmerized so many of their countryman were, the cost of opposition was too high.
I grew up with the grandchildren of survivors and so was a little obsessed with the Holocaust as a high school and college student...for a shiksa ;) . One image has stuck with me for years...an entire family hanging in the public square...mother, father, little children, and grandparents. As a young woman, it was easy to believe I would act with bravery... I'd like to think that I would have...but I understood how much more difficult the decision would be if I knew my parents and children would be executed for my choice. The people who took that risk were incredibly brave...as were their families.
I don't know what is happening or why or who...only that it has nothing to do with this virus or public health. We must oppose peacefully and give no quarter. The cost of opposition will only grow higher as time goes on. I don't think even most of us in the opposition...who are awake to the threat...truly understand what may be required of us to stop this tyrannical juggernaut.
Endless analysis of the quality and quantity of the rings your enemy is wearing as she punches you in the face is masochism. People know exactly what they have to do. "Doing" is huge hurdle for symbol manipulators.
I don't think people know exactly what they have to do. This is happening all over the world...very hard for many to get their heads around that reality.
Civil war and violent conflict may be unavoidable in many areas. But who is our enemy exactly...the bureaucracy, the cops enforcing insane rules, the people who are captured, those going along because they don't know what else to do?
What if they...whoever they are...want us to turn on each other? To be distracted while they accomplish their goals...whatever they are? We should all be firmly and peacefully non-compliant until and unless we have no other choice...'cause we might be playing right into their hands...whoever they are.
I'm listening to this dystopian story from a young woman in Australia.
A few days ago, I listened to this conversation with Ernst Wolff. Is he right? I hope not. Does it matter? I'm not sure it does. Which is worse...a global billionaire cabal taking over the planet...or a mass psychosis taking over the planet?
I'm in the US, in a blue state that has not completely lost its mind...yet.
At present, I have three responsibilities:
- Follow what is going on locally and nationally.
- Follow what is going on globally.
- Pass on information to shake people from their trance.
IMO, most Americans have no idea what is happening in Australia, New Zealand, or Europe. There is a de facto news blackout. I only know what I know because I seek the information. On a daily basis, I encounter people on the evil bluebird and Fakebook and in real life who have no clue that the jabs don't stop infection or transmission...even though the CDC director admitted it over four months ago...even though governments have been rolling out boosters. I hate to admit it, but most Americans are low information and, frankly, stupid.
This psy-op has been very effective. The cognitive dissonance is very hard to break.
Austria and Germany and Australia are ahead of the US on this crazy curve. The fight is harder and the stakes are higher.
"Today’s circumstances require everyone’s prudence and consideration to help the sick as far as possible and to support overburdened healthcare staff. Disseminating videos such as this is surely no help in this regard."
1) The institute's response is itself imprudent.
2) Mandating jabs will not help the sick.
3) Firing staff will help neither the sick nor an overburdened staff.
Idiots are in charge of the world's major institutions.
She is another casualty of the machine that is trying to grind us all, dehumanize us, coerce us, control us, monitor us ... The institution's response is so disproportionate and ridiculous, I wonder if she is surprised to have been fired, or if she knew she was taking a risk by posting the video? They just want to crush us. The machine appears happy to sacrifice anyone in the interest of its agenda -- the plan to vax even little kids shows the horrifying level of sacrifice that is coming.
Hang in there! There must be a limit to this madness. We've only to hold out as long as possible. Perhaps throw spanners in the works where possible...
Unfortunately if we look at prior collectivist hysterias, the "limit" is that millions of people end up dead and the rest live in a dystopian dictatorship, some of which have still never ended.
The sort of people who fired this woman are the sort of people who cheered on the Red October. Not much was learned about the dangers of such people and their beliefs. As far as they're concerned, any criticism of authority makes people "sick" and this is immoral so such people must be punished as harshly as possible. The possibility that authority is wrong, just doesn't occur to them at all. The demonization of social media by the left contributes heavily to this mentality.
This isn't conflict between states or ethnic groups though and they will continue to bleed support the longer things go on. I can't see it escalating that far.
It's a conflict between the state and dissident groups, which is a pretty typical template. I also don't think they care about support that much, but even if they did, currently they have it.
One glanced at the twentieth century tells us those limits can be very deep indeed.
Only certain regions of the US are likely to survive: the God, Guns and Family zones. The West elsewhere is far too decadent and nihilistic to avoid the "Black Iron Prison".
If people like this brave woman speak out individually, they can pick us off one by one. Maybe we are getting to a point where only concerted mass (group) action will get the government's attention.
A bureaucrat (Söder? Habeck, Scholz? Ursula v.d. Layen????? ) has the right to decide how and in which frequency my body and the bodies of my children should be permanently modified? This is beyond any measure and those people have completely lost any sense for reality.
The young lady on this video is totally right! Do not bow to the pressure and lay down your work if you have to. I started my preparations for leaving the country. They are only bluffing! Those people are helpless if just 10% say 'hell no, I am laying down my work and going to live on social security'.
I am not in health care so nobody will have to suffer because I am not there but it will still be not very easy to replace my skills in the current market situation. Imagine what happens when 10% do this. Let the Söder, Lauterbach, von den Layen and alike 'rulers' clean their own toilets, run their own utilities and services, drive their own deliveries. They give orders but WE are the ones who do the jobs after all.
The whole system has mutated in an inverted world where the unproductive cargo-cult bureaucratic followers think they are the most important ones. Well NO, F**** NO! Can Germany actually afford to lose 10% working force? If that's their plan then they will get it but I am afraid this will be too much of a hit. They know very well that in 1Y with 95% vaxxed they will have full and understaffed hospitals. Therefore they will start the next distraction - war with Russia? Global internet outage?
Maybe Germany will import another 1M-2M "engineers" from Syria and Afghanistan.
Ungovernable? If 90% of population complies, do you think any government gives a sh*t
if 10% don't like something? Do you think that large majority of the people who have already complied care about your reasons? No, large majority of the people are frustrated with the non-compliant people because they think they are the cause of this.
Most of the people have already complied and large majority of those who haven't yet will when vaccine mandates and fines come into play.
You're sadly right...and I must add, many that complied just to go to work or eat at the restaurant are angry because they feel like "I did it even if I didn't want to, SO you have to do the same and shut up" kind of thing...human nature...sheesh..
I believe you underestimate the power of civil disobedience. I think if 10% of the population engaged in well-organized, carefully coordinated resistance, it would prove more than adequate to gum up the gears of this monstrosity. The tipping point has been found to be even lower than that, at around 3.5%. I'm certainly no Pollyanna, but at this point we have no choice but to give it our all, even if the odds appear hopelessly stacked against us.
Maybe. But I grew up in a communist country where majority of the people were either against it or were largely ambivalent. It took 40-50 years for the system to finally crumble (and I still don't know why it did).
It's really hard to get even 1%-2% of population to really care. That's especially true now in the west: people have more or less everything and are extremely easily distracted (internet, smartphones, etc.) and divided. And if they are not distracted, maybe they are worried about paying their mortgage and keeping
their jobs. Or they simply don't care enough (eg, privacy issues on the internet / smartphones, surveillance, etc.).
Please don't think I'm being dismissive of your concerns, because I don't disagree about how challenging it is. Even more so it's incumbent upon those of us that are "awake" , stop tiptoeing through this dystopian nightmare and let the monsters pretend they own reality. I admit that I've yet to figure out the next step, so admittedly my post to you was more an appeal than a roadmap. But I do strongly believe that we've decidedly taken the first step by not getting the jab. Those that have gotten jabbed can take their first concrete step by not getting boosted and by not getting their kids jabbed. I see a bit of hope there, because I know plenty of people who were on board with the first jab(s) but are now saying "heck no", and many that are definitely not interested in subjecting their kiddos to it. As for next steps, I firmly believe that a withdrawal of support from certain targeted institutions is a must. Ideally a boycott should be wide-spread to have a maximum impact, so that's perhaps where we could rally our like-minded cohorts to be disciplined and just say no to certain non-essentials. I've found it hard to swallow the crap coming out of most of the media, especially entertainment, so cancelling subscriptions and memberships to fanatical vaxx supporting entities would be a small but healthy step (if for nothing more than to put that money and time to better use). I've also found that just speaking up is a form of civil disobedience. Stating your position very matter-of-factually and in no uncertain terms, can strengthen others that need a bit of encouragement to buck the narrative. Next up? I think protests and walkouts for sure. I agree that this will take time, but the longer we wait to go "all in" the longer it will take to undo the tyranny.
I agree in principle. And there's many different ways of protesting making a stand, etc. Everything you said could and may work and may be enough to make a difference and bring change.
Or not. Communism lasted very long time. It crumbled very very quickly
and dominos fell insanely fast. I am still surprised how quickly it unravelled, but I also can't really pin point why (or how) it collapsed.
Maybe the same thing happens here -- maybe one of hundred things
I support civil disobedience. But what are some examples of civil disobedience in this case? To not wear a mask when told to? To enter a store without showing the vaxpass? I'd be interested to hear creative ideas about civil disobedience against these covid policies.
Also, don't forget that proponents of civil disobedience, like Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Cesar Chavez told their followers: when you engage in civil disobedience, you have to be ready to accept the consequences of it, which can include imprisonment, beatings, loss of employment, and even death. So, civil disobedience can entail major sacrifice by the protesters.
In most places governments outsourced compliance to businesses themselves
who now have to check for passes and ensure people wear masks or make sure they are ok with required capacity. They can be fined or shutdown themselves if they don't do it. It's lame if we blow off people who work there -- it's not their fault.
One thing that could work is a general strike or people not showing up for work or businesses closing up for a while. But what's the chance of that? Most of the people are "working" from home and they don't have much at stake. They would be just hurting themselves in the short term. For what? For something as abstract as "freedom" that everybody takes for granted?
Let me add that I think the planned digital vaxpass will function to enforce compliance and prevent civil disobedience. If all aspects of your life -- employment, housing, health insurance, school enrollment, pension, travel tickets, banking, etc. -- are tied to your current vax status as registered in the central database, this will be a big deterrent from protesting the system. The Stasi would have LOVED to have this kind of info and control over the people. Just think: the protesters in 1989 were largely an anonymous crowd. The police and secret police arrested some of them, and could then identify them. But who was in the crowd? They didn't know. But with today's technology, if you need to carry the vaxpass on your smartphone, they will geolocate you, they'll know who you communicate with, where you go, who you meet with -- everything! It creates a web of compliance, a "matrix" if you will.
Most countries don't have the technology (and manpower) to do this kind of massive surveillance and they are also largely incompetent (for now -- this will likely change in the future).
But the first part where every aspect of your life is tied to some pass could happen especially in countries that have centralized everything. The crazy thing is that most people (especially younger generations) are completely ok with that. They claim it's "convenient" to have everything tied to smartphone.
Mhmmm...
They are already talking about huge fines in Austria and Greece for people who are not vaccinated.
Well, I am most concerned about the EU since that's where I live, and I think the EU has the technology, manpower and budget to implement something like this; an EU-wide centralized database enabling a digital vaxpass was already being planned by the EU prior to covid. Maybe other countries would have trouble creating, paying for, and maintaining such a system, but I think the plan is to use AI to manage the system, which might streamline logistics and costs. I think I was reading that India was trying to implement such an electronic system to manage health care and distribution of public subsidies (e.g. pensions, food subsidies, etc.).
See my lengthy reply to Ivan. Admittedly there will be sacrifices, but it's abundantly clear that even in the absence of our "contrarianism" the sacrifices have been, and will continue to, pile up. I think small acts can do wonders, and I'm trying to outline further steps for myself. The next moves have proven to be a challenge for our crowd, perhaps because we're independent thinkers and don't naturally gravitate toward groupings. This insanity that's taken hold of the world over the past nearly 22 months, has brought a rag-tag group of people who may previously had little reason to organize, under one umbrella. Getting to the next step is an ongoing process, so take small steps until the bigger movements can congeal.
Good points. We are being slowly, relentlessly, inexorably led to the slaughter -- excluded, marginalized, scapegoated. Or maybe not so slowly. The rhetoric has definitely heated up in the last 1-2 weeks, with Austria setting the example. Look how vax rtes jumped in France in the summer right after Macron threatened tightening the vaxpass requirements -- people who didn't want to get the vax got it, as the pressure increased. I'm afraid you're right the same will happen as the mandates and fines are put in place. Those who are really hard core and still won't get the vax will be a very small minority -- easily ignored and dealt with.
There you have it. Regular boosters, or else. There are quite a lot of people who got these shots and had a bad reaction. Not necessarily a horrific reaction, but bad enough to spook a person. For instance, an irregular heartbeat for a couple of weeks. Or, high fever accompanied by severe exhaustion for several days. I keep hearing about stuff like this (and I don't just mean on Internet forums). It's quite a lot of people, actually. How many will want a booster after that?
You're absolutely right and people like Fauci, Vojtech, Babis, Ursula, and others talk blithely about "everyone has to get the jab, it's the only way out of the pandemic" without explaining it means signing up to regular future shots. This shows the myopia that has characterized the policy response and the media coverage -- and hence people's understanding of the situation -- since this epidemic began, and that I think is so dangerous: they focus only on the immediate here-and-now, without considering long-term implications. In some countries, I think the space between boosters is down to 5, 4 and even 3 months to be considered "fully vaxxed". When is this virus going to be declared endemic so we can get on with our lives?
Oh, and I forgot: Fauci, Vojtech, Babis, Ursula, and others who push the vax not only don't talk about the boosters, they also don't talk about the inevitable and logically necessary digital vax pass that everyone will have to use to show their current vax status. The vaxpass will lead to totalitarianism: it will enable a level of surveillance, control, and data gathering that the KGB and Stasi could only dream of. Anyone who pushes universal injection, anyone who entertains the idea of mandates -- is promoting totalitarianism. It's that simple.
That's what I have been wondering for 18 months now. What is an event
(or situation) that will trigger end to this? I don't see it.
More more countries are just doubling down on the same measures (masks, closures) and vaccines. Even countries that were relatively reasonable (eg, Sweden) the story is the same.
If people (I mainly mean bureaucrats and other desk jockeys) couldn't work from home, this would have been over a long time ago or it would never have been an issue.
Yes, exactly. There's pressure from governments (fines, mandates, lockdowns, etc.), but there's also pressure from within the population.
I am looking at my own situation: I am not vaccinated, because I believe that in
the long run I am better off without it. It's the same risk analysis I do for a yearly flu shot. But more or less I can't go anywhere anymore and I can't do anything.
My life would be so much simpler if I just took the shot. So, the pressure governments apply is working. If they start fines (and they have ability to request
the fine directly from banks -- they do it for taxes), how long can I maintain this?
Canada the ' opposition ' folded and rolled over to comply- disgusting! Very low voter turn out , too -instinctively most people know these elections are a farce! We have a right wing party that gained votes but no seats.
It was not a topic at the previous elections because everybody declared NOT to consider vaccine mandates. It will change drastically at the next elections. Of course they do it now, when they are freshly elected.
Nope, not the case. I know some and indeed very smart and productive people who are not vaccinated. Also many will not get boosted - The sister of a close friend got a frightening heart condition after moderna: they will not get boosters. Get them on the 10%. The son of a neighbour (16Y) had a seizure 2w after 2nd BNT dose - they will still get boosted ... speechless.
Try to win some hearts, Ivan. Be a good example. Plant some healthy scepticism in people you know. Do not push them - just tell them some facts and totally agree with their decision. It should be THEIR INFORMED decision not their PROPAGANDISED decision. That's all.
Yes, the bad reactions to the vaccine cannot be hidden forever, and it is definitely waking people up! Everyone knows someone who died or had a reaction. There is speculation, though , about how many higher ups actually RECEIVED a real vaccine, and if the boosters will be placebos for some. I know someone who is positive there was nothing in their second shot-no reaction whatsoever .
What does it really mean to be ungovernable? Europeans are very governable. Look around in your population: who is really ungovernable? I would say certain minority groups, maybe those living in "no-go zones" and the Roma, for example. They are the really ungovernable ones. The police are even afraid to go into their neighborhoods. Think they'll get the shot?
One more thought on this: maybe one way the groups I mentioned could be pressured to get the vax (along with other holdouts) would be to make welfare payments contingent on vax status. No public subsidies -- in Europe this might include health insurance, child support, parental leave and support, student stipends, unemployment benefits, etc. -- for those who don't get vaxxed and use the vaxpass.
Even so, maybe the "ungovernable" groups I mentioned before, in their banlieus and no-go zones, would find work-arounds, like fake vaxpasses. Or, maybe they would just accept not getting the public handouts anymore.
I see your points, 'Your name' and Ivan, and understand that becoming ungovernable is a personal decision as to how far can you go. It depends if you have family, mortgage and so on, BUT:
1. NOBODY can force you to go to work. If you do not go to work then your job is not being done. Everything is quite optimised and 10% are not few.
2. Social welfare is actually a bad idea if you are really depending on it - you become totally dependable.
3. Elections will come - choose wisely!
4. Can afford to emigrate?
- I tell you in eastern europe you will not see enforceable mandates very soon. People have never trusted their governments and will not trust them on that one. Real estate is dirt cheap.
- If you are in the position to emigrate to Florida/Texas/... then wow, I am happy for you! Even UK - I do not think the people will tolerate general mandates there. I Work with lot's of UK based folks and even if most of them being jabbed they have a totally different state of mind. I think this will not happen there. I believe the nordic states will not do it as well but who knows. I am sorry to say this but the pattern 'Austria followed suit by Germany' is not arbitrary. Let them not succeed this time. Switzerland - not sure!
5. I see it like this: those people are trying to kill me and my children. Will I cooperate to save my wage, my mortgage, my social status? Will a cooperate and support such a government with my taxes? Should I do this for my kids, so that they can have a bright future of bureaucrats jabbing them each X months?
6. Start a religion: the holy body :) Jabs will be against it.
Choose your way to resist. I wish I had better ideas now but do not. Somebody else might indeed have so we implement them.
I'm not sure eastern europe is really such a haven from the madness. I hope you're right, but the noises being made here are not good. Already countries like Latvia, I think, are using vaxpasses. Viktor Orban has said everyone should get jabbed, and recently the Czech President talked about mandatory jabs to a meeting of the Visegrad Four group. Slovakia is more totalitarian than Czechia -- I've heard you can't even go to church there. And further east, I don't think things are much better, frankly.
Sorry to hear this. I come from further east. In my home country I think less than 30% are vaccinated. If this gets to 60-70% they might try but not before that. And after this the real struggle beggins - how to control and enforce it. People in the rural areas are so fed up with the politicians that they will precisely avoid getting vaccinated if mandated :). Yes Bulgaria was shamefully on the side of Germany in WW2 but actually there was a popular uprising in favour of the Bulgarian Jews so they were not deported to the Nazi concentration camps.
People there are street smart and natively distrust elites. I have many friends who are vaccinated but they are not freaking out at the "unclean" as I see it in Germany. The madness here is staggering.
Interesting insights about Bulgaria. And I hope you're right the vax rate stays low there, and the people remain skeptical. But consider this: even in rural areas, aren't smart phones popular? And we know that smartphones are already an instrument of surveillance and control. What if the EU implements a Europe-wide vaxpass app. Or there is even a global vaxpass standard. Many Bulgarians still may not want to get vaxxed, but if they want to travel, work abroad, do internet banking, study abroad, etc., they'll have to have this app and an approved current vax status. That would be a powerful way to coerce even rural eastern Europeans. That might be the matrix people like Ursula are driving us toward. Fine, the Eurocrats will say, if some elderly retired widow in Apriltsi doesn't want to get the vax maybe we'll let people like her slip through the cracks for now. She'll still be entered in the database, and she won't be able to participate in public life, though. But the younger generation, they want to travel, study, make money, be cosmopolitan. The EU vaxpass would be key for them to do that.
Another thing: can we 'apply' for controlled infection as an alternative. We visit hospital, get infected and are exempt. We sign that in case of severe covid we are not going to go to hospital. I know this is stupid but given the negative efficacy of the jabs against symptomatic disease (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410) it is still the preferable choice.
My wife was feeling ill last week and was almost hopeful it was Covid so she could get the 6-month pass. Apparently, to get the pass, you have to go to a testing center to get proof you are infected. So, at the first sign of feeling sick, she wanted to travel to a testing center. I said that was crazy, if she's feeling sick she should rest at home and take medications to try to get better. But then she said, if she gets better without the test, even if it was Covid she couldn't get the pass, so in effect she would have had covid "for nothing". Anyway, I prevailed in this conversation and she rested and is better now. Don't know if it was covid or not, but I doubt it.
Haha! I got my first positive self-test on a Sunday (too late go to the test center), and then I got myself a PCR test first thing on Monday. Positive. Phew. Mind you, my COVID experience was terrible (worst "flu" I ever had), but hey, I now have a piece of paper for six months.
They are bluffing because if 10% say HELL NO they cannot enforce it. 10% in Germany is 8M people. At the current state of affairs they cannot afford to
persecute, arrestt and imprison so many. Given 30% unvaccinated, say 20% unvaccinated adults, yes they are bluffing. If we stand and do not comply they cannot enforce it. This is the definition of a bluff.
Time is against them actually. Vaccines are failing badly. Their only escape scenario is a Marek effect and a variant which is mild for the vaccinated but severe for the unvaccinated. The trajectory to this is to let thevirus evolve in the vaccinated but take the unvaccinated out of the equation by locking them down. This is what we are seeing and they are really hoping for the Marek effect. Omicron is exactly the opposite - a mild variant. Therefore they are freaking about it. Omicron seems to be a gift from the nature.
Genau. The civil disobedience tipping point would be exceeded if even half the unjabbed adults stop playing the game, withdraw their cooperation, and protest en masse.
To be honest, ABC, I am not so optimistic that this will be stopped in Germany or Austria. People here trust authorities too much. I guess this is what you would call sheeple
Saw the videos yesterday. Though they were so great. Finally a viral moment in Bayern to counter the prevailing pandemic of the unvaxxed bullshit! But then.. simply pathetic that she is fired the next day.
This whole ratcheting up of the sanctioned and widely supported discrimination against the unvaxxed is making me feel like a freaking leper in my adopted homeland.
Has no politician noticed the hospitalisation rate has already been falling for almost weeks? Or that the 7-day case incidence crested on the 20th November and has been falling for a week now?
The level of evil being done here is getting to biblical proportions. Maybe they are playing a manipulation game to get people to take the vax now by threatening a future mandate, and they don't really plan to mandate it. Or maybe this is a trial balloon to see how the populace reacts to the proposal. But if we take the statements of these leaders at face value, they are monstrous villains. To propose to coerce the entire population to take a novel irreversible experimental medicine that acts on the genetic level violates how many laws and principles of medical ethics and human rights? Even if the vax was safe and effective, to mandate it would be wrong. But it is obviously not safe and effective, and these cruel police state tactics and lies show there is a dark agenda at work here.
i am also an employee of the free state of bavaria, and the virus hysteria in the bureaucratic ranks here is something to behold.
Can this not be challenged legally? I mean, the government here is violating a lot of laws, isn't it? Aren't there constitutional and human rights laws that should protect you?
there are legal challenges but they never succeed, the courts are totally behind all the suppression measures.
it’s almost surely illegal for bavaria to even ask its employees about vaccination, given our storied medical privacy laws. good luck challenging that anywhere.
Maybe it will be different this time as the judges are also employees of the free state of Bavaria. Some of the Bavarian judges are amongst the unvaccinated.
On second thought, those unvaccinated judges would be prejudiced ("befangen") and therefore banned from deciding on whether any treatment of unvaccinated is unlawful. So your case will be decided by vaccinated judges only. Might be a waste of money to hear them, but pretty soon they will confiscate all your assets anyway to pay your fines for being unvaccinated. So you might as well spend your money on litigation.
I recommed taking only unvaccinated attorneys - they will at least be motivated to give their best.
With "befangen" you are jumping to a conclusion. First of all, anyone´s medical status is private and confidential. There will be no disclosure by any judges as long as they are in their right legal minds, and they might even rule to such effect. So the point is moot.
Medical status is no longer private. Any employee of the state of Bavaria has to disclose it to his employer- how else would the unvaccinated be forced to present PCR tests? Enter any restaurant, hotel or shop, or board a train - you have to disclose your medical status as vaccinated, recovered, or unvaccinated.
The employer of the judges knows that status, namely the free state of Bavaria who would be a party to the proceedings.
I'll grant that "befangen" is a legal opinion. In theory, a court might have a different opinion. Do you think that is likely? The unvaccinated judge really does create case law that applies to him personally so that he has a personal interest in the case- that is practically the definition of "befangen"
How will future historians look back on this "Covid era"? These politicians are so blatantly violating the norms and laws of their countries that are meant to prevent just this kind of medical malpractice and totalitarian power grabs. It is so shocking to me that someone like Olof or Ursula can just "say so", and that is how policy is set. Whatever happened to "checks and balances", to informed consent for medical treatment, and consent of the governed for policy making?
(But that raises another problem -- what if a majority of the people actually support these medical tyranny policies? Opinion polls, if they are to be believed, suggest that many or most people in places like Ireland, UK, Switzerland, Australia support what their governments are going. And look at the recent Canadian election. So, despite anti-jab and anti-vaxpass protests, maybe these leaders feel they have the backing of their people to proceed.)
> But that raises another problem -- what if a majority of the people actually support these medical tyranny policies?
I suspect they do - or at least enough of the politicians' bases do.
Democracy is a bulwark against individual dictators, but is helpless when a population itself turns tyrannical.
But that's why all these "advanced democracies" have constitutions and sign treaties on human rights: to prevent just such a tyranny of the majority. The American Founding Fathers warned against the danger of the tyranny of the majority, and tried to build in safeguards in the constitutional system to prevent it. The whole point of the constitution is to say, these are the rules we follow as a society. Medical treatment and experimentation is by informed consent only. Bureaucrats cannot make up hygiene laws that violate basic human rights. Right? But across all these countries, we see leaders violating exactly the laws and norms that are supposed to protect us.
How will future historians look back on this? Easy: they'll describe it as mass hysteria. Kinda like the witch hunts.
Only if the pendulum swings back to some version of pre-2020 normality.
I'm sure they do. But I'd think they're realistic and fearful, too. They realistically know the mob can turn at any time. And they're fearful of that.
So they keep testing the water.
While they can get away with it they will.
While the majority seems to be with them.
We have to swing the majority.
seems hard.
But when we think about it all we have everywhere is minorities 'swinging' the majority - isn't it?
That's the problem.
The sane world being ruined by insane minorities, everywhere.
So if one minority can do then so can we.
It just takes, I think, one slogan, one catch phrase, one meme, one idea that appeals to them and - bang ! they swing the other way.
They seize upon slogans and go with them. Their entire modus operandi you could say.
Like good old mum and dad who admit they don't know what's going on and who's right and who's wrong they live according to the simple slogan: 'better safe than sorry' - and wear a mask, stay indoors, etc.
I guess the whole human race uses 'shorthand' thinking like that to steer by.
And they feel. Don't sell them short. They feel. So the shorthand: 'If it saves one life' means something to them.
That's why I hope the notion - which happens to be a truth - of the Immune System might turn out to be a meme that sinks in with them.
In the first instance it'd be good if they started to see the whole thing in terms of the Immune System because that at least accords with reality.
And then just maybe a slogan may arise from it that they all go with. 'Give the Immune System A Chance' or something maybe.
Yeah, slim hope. But those things: it is possible to 'win' as a minority. Can be done almost instantly on a slogan. Pointing to a reality like Immune Systems surely has to be positive.
They worth going with while we've nothing better surely?
I believe by that point in time the indoctrinated historians will uniformly state it was a good thing and all resistance was suppressed.
Is there no talk there about the Nuremberg Code, enacted right in your backyard?
The majority are hypnotized, as during the prelude to the Third Reich. Get a gun, if you can. More importantly, form networks of people who think like you. Guns in and of themselves are useless. Thousands of armed people acting in concert are formidable, even if (God willing) no shot is ever fired.
To put it in perspective, The Canadian Human Rights Museum in Manitoba, requires all visitors to be vaccinated. Try that one on for size. So much for Human Rights in 🇨🇦
In Europe? You're kidding, right?
Methinks you need to revisit your "50k plans" thesis. The hysteria is well fed from a central source, and there is no escaping it. If there is more designs than one, it will be just a few, not a multitude.
I really hope you can escape the madness and avoid the jab ?
Hear, hear! But what I think is actually happening is that their policies failed, and now they're scared and angry. Scapegoating the unvaxxed is an obvious strategy for them, because it deflects anger from them. It's not working completely, though. You're from CZ, right? I keep reading these articles on Český rozhlas about how health care workers face intimidation, and how the unvaccinated are getting aggressive. Right. Well, when you do your best to demonize one part of the population (and a rather big one, too), don't be surprised when you get some pushback. I'm lucky to have a "recovered" certificate (valid until mid-April), which buys me some time. But the situation is getting crazier and crazier by the day.
Interestingly enough, it appears that Poland and Croatia are the sanest countries in Europe at the moment. I'm not too sure how to explain that.
I hope people push back -- and not just the unvaxxed, but anyone who cares about living in a free society. I've heard about stores, restaurants, etc. that evade the measures by saying "all are welcome" and not checking for vax status. That's a kind of civil disobedience that I think we'll need more of. And it is quite risky for those businesses, because the govt could punish them.
Masks have just been mandated again in the UK for shops and public transport and a couple of quite big national retailers have publicly stated they will not be asking staff to enforce it on the basis that they don’t want to risk their staff being abused if they challenge anyone. Could also be that they think it’s madness and by announcing it will get the business of people who won’t comply. I’ll certainly be shopping in one of them more that I currently do as a result
I think people are getting tired of the whole hysteria, there is only so long it can be kept at a peak. In our part of Canada (Alberta-no say in fed election btw) I have been going maskless with no problem where formerly I would be called out right away! Please God it keeps up. The only thing is they could whip up the hysteria against the unvaxxed I suppose... It is a global evil and pray and resistance may be the only way out of this! ( Maybe they are more prayerful in Poland and Croatia??!! )
No shop is entitled to enforce anything, and I guess that would also be the advice dished out by the legal departments of companies big enough to have them. There would only be liabilities involved, i.e., costs.
Not in Germany. If the shop does not enforce government's corona regulations, the shop will be fined.
You really have to get your act together in Germany. At any cost.
Two years ago I was dazed, confused, and afraid of the virus. Then dazed, confused and afraid of my government. No longer dazed and confused. I know who my real friends are. I have defined the enemy, and its collaborators. I am disappointed and very angry. I view my government as a hostile entity. I will not comply. I will not be silent. I am trusting God, and prepared.
This describes me, too, although I admit I am still in the dazed and confused state. It was just a couple weeks ago the Czech government implemented rules unjustly discriminating against the unjabbed, for the explicit purpose of coercing the jab. I am still getting used to the idea that the state is my enemy. It is a new relationship with the government. Before, although not being naive about corruption, I generally tried to give the benefit of the doubt and understanding that policy mistakes might be made by well-intentioned authorities. But now, the govt is out to get me. Where I used to basically be oriented toward following the law, now I feel that a tyrannical government does not need to be followed. They implement unjust laws -- I don't have to follow them. In fact, in the months/years ahead we're going to have to find ways around the evil laws. It feels like the social contract has basically been broken. And not by me. They did it.
I understand. Went through the same thing myself. The turning point for me was when I learned of Ivermectin. The govt prohibit me having it. No harm to them or anyone else. No harm to me. Proven hundreds of thousands of times. Yet they prohibit it.
And then not satisfied with that they prohibit doctors prescribing it.
And then not satisfied with that they prohibit doctors even informing me.
And all that on a background of a total dearth of therapeutic information or measures!
I'm incredulous, 'gob smacked', astounded, bewildered, amazed, shocked....
but convinced: my govt is anti-me. Or you. Or any of us. Only cloned slaves are permitted and they, of course, will be culled as and when necessary.
Well said. I too was initially afraid of the virus but now am far more afraid of not only my government but the world government cabal. If you think any other country but yours does not matter, it does. When one crushes freedom, it chips away at all others. The EU is clearly a failed state and these moves smell of desperation. Pray. Plan. Prepare. Resist.
Greg Garciajust now
Interesting to read that Australia now has cases of Omicron. Since no unvaxxed people are allowed in or out of the country , how did it spread? Maybe it arrived in the mail because clearly it couldn’t have been carried by a vaccinated individual..........or wait? Could it? I also read yesterday that the person who brought omicron to San Francisco USA was double vaxxed. So like we’re all being told, they’re safe AND effective. The governments’ only lie left is to state that the omicron carrier did not yet have their 3rd or 4th or 5th booster. Soon I suspect we’ll all be measuring time based off of what “variant” is it?
You could read the SF Chronicle all day and never read that the patient was twice vaccinated.
Of the four people in Israel with Omricon, two are doctors who had received 3 jabs: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/2-doctors-infected-with-omicron-covid-variant-confirmed-cases-in-israel-hit-4/amp/
And they traveled from London.......another country we need to implement a travel ban???
Oops. Almost forgot......those nordics are out celebrating Christmas way too early. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-02/norway-reports-large-outbreak-of-omicron-variant-infections
Thx for helping spread the unfiltered information as new trickles in from around the globe. Guess the USA will have to immediately implement travel bans against Australia, Israel (oh wait, that might be anti-Semitic) and The Netherlands. With the 6 passengers per week that travel from So. Africa into the USA sure glad we’ve already implemented travel bans from there. We must remain safe.
In the UK we’ve banned arrivals from Eswatini which will certainly keep us all safe. I even had to google where it is
Isn’t that where the spider came from?.........eensi-weensi?? If I remember correctly, that’s where the water spout was invented.
Could be, but I thought the spiders came from Mars?
I cannot understand why anyone would ever claim a vaccinated person cannot carry a virus.
Excuse my ignorance if that's what it is but doesn't a vaccine merely prompt an immune system into action?
So that when the 'enemy' turns up it is ready to 'fight' the enemy?
Where in that does the enemy not appear?
The enemy is expected to appear.
Only the cards are supposedly stacked in our favour.
I wonder how you can ever say a virus will not appear anywhere when they're ubiquitous, airborne, have been found in the stratosphere even, capable of dormancy etc.
A lot of people have no idea how vax works, or their own immune system. But they claim to revere "the science," and worship its spokesmen. That's a good start, I suppose, unless the spokesmen are charlatans.
How about the possibility that with over 60 trillion different viruses (yes, that’s right, trillion) housed inside our fully functioning microbiome helping keep our immune systems robust and “at the ready” to assist once we receive the next (likely daily) insult, by vaccinating and dumping another toxin into our system, one mammalian (we now see Covid housed in whitetail deer, dogs and cats) option is for our immune system to “release” a variant than can ASSIST us all in moving closer to herd immunity as a mechanism of the continuation of Human survival. Possible?
I think your bottom line there is that eventually it'll work out fine and I think that's completely right. And many epidemiologists and such have tried to say just that. This is the normal situation. It is not apocalyptic.
It is not the apocalypse.
It's not even unusual.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/norways-third-omicron-case-detected-after-company-christmas-party-2021-12-02/
Outbreak of 50 cases at an Oslo party, apparently all vaccinated and tested beforehand!
This is sounding like full blown vaccine escape. Christmas came early!
Yep, and exactly what eugyppius and several others have been writing about on substack for quite some time!
Even the dumbest of the frightened masses will soon figure out the stupidity of spoting a few cases, all "fully" vaxed, and responding by demanding everyone get the vax. Which clearly doesn't work. Irrationality only survives in the panic. The panic eventually subsides. Always.
This is still mild compared to Canada where Federal workers must be vaccinated, or face termination. Testing for them is not an option. My brother who has been a pilot for 20 years, and a damn good one at that, will loose his job in the coming days for refusing to comply. Just like that, his career is over. And this is spreading to all sectors. Everyone needs to get it through their heads, this has nothing to do with health.
I know Canada is really crazy, very sorry to hear about your brother.
Thank you. He is building his case for a lawsuit down the road. There's no point in suing now, as the courts are all in on this madness. The crazy part is as of November 30, we can't even fly out of here without being jabbed. I wish you all the best, and I hope there's light at the end of this dark tunnel. Keep up your fantastic writing.
Canadian citizens who are unvaccinated are even banned from returning to their country in flagrant violation of international law, I am effectively marooned in the UK.
Insane. I'm a dual citizen but stay in the US. I've accepted I'm probably never setting foot in Canada again.
You are better off in the US! You have the option to live in a state free of these restrictions. Sadly in Canada, there is no push back from any provinces, even Alberta. We are a country void of any opposition.
You could cross the border, Biden's left it wide open. or maybe that only applies to the US southern border...
Have you been told that you're banned by the gov? Says here that you can return as long as you don't have "symptoms": https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/2019-novel-coronavirus-information-sheet.html
Hhhmmm I thought you could fly in but only to your final destination -check the government travel website and arrcan . You may not be able to leave though unless you find a private flight to Mex . A lot of Canadians abroad and you- by law -have to be allowed back. Not that they have been following laws....
Honestly I'm ashamed of my country and I'm happy to be marooned here.
I am so sorry about your brother. The policy is so inhuman. The powers that be are breaking the social contract -- not just the formal law, but norms, values, ethics, human rights. Even if covid went away right now at this instant, this damage to relationships -- between friends, family, workers and employers, students and schools, in the military -- over policies like masking, distancing and esp. the vax, will take years to heal, if it can be repaired at all. The feelings of anger, betrayal, exploitation are so strong. People like your brother who get fired may rightly feel angry and betrayed -- by his employer who fires him, the state that mandates it, and by the media that pushes it. And then those people who do take the vax even if they don't want to, just to keep their job -- they may also feel angry, betrayed, exploited, and endangered by those who coerced them, which will have a negative effect on job performance. All this leads to unhappy people, social division, lowered productivity, jobs not getting done ... These covid policies are doing so much psychological and social damage.
It is about totalitarianism
Nah. So far run-of-the-mill tyrannical government sadism. No guarantees, though.
It is really turning out that the 'best' people, nations, are the 'worst'. Isn't it?
For the 'best' are the most law abiding and reliable in that same respect. The most deferential to authority. The most convinced of the basic correctness of their own society.
The most keen to play their part. Have the greatest innate belief in the all their systems and authorities and experts.
Like good mindless worker ants or termites they function smoothly and build beautiful termite mounds and look to be so wonderfully efficient.
But it turns out they don't know what they're doing. They just 'do', and know not what they do.
Meanwhile, the feisty, irreverent, disorganised, 'corrupt', untrustworthy and somewhat chaotic 'others' make progress, find their way forward like water seeping through the cracks.
It has been like this for decades now. 'They' helped us with pirate DVD's and books and cheap goods (often made with disregard of patent and such) and all our frozen strictures that crippled our own ability to produce quickly and cheaply.
They help to this day in medical fields - doing operations on people who can't get/can't afford within the 'termite mounds'.
The world is built on their backs. A world defined today by the smartphone, I think - and it built by them.
We are defined by rigid, humourless, inflexible, unthinking, cowardly, bullying, inhuman bureaucratic functionaries who've been unseen rotting our system from the inside out all this time. We didn't suspect there were there.
Now we see it in many, many ways. Thank god for that irreverent 'barbarian' outer world.
IN the meanwhile here in the USA some instances are hiring back the laid off people, because hospitals, schools, fire brigades etc were so short in people they could not do else. Several courts have ruled the jabs, the masks, the lockdowns, illegal. Several states are suing the national government. So far all cases were a win.
Now that the virus is down to a common cold, you would think the craze is ending. But it is a race of lemming to die I suppose. All these governments will suffer the consequences, even worse so when the last of the blinded people finally find out how hard they have been had. Like the members of a cult who get de-brainwashed, they will turn in force against their tormenters. I hope and pray that may be soon.
Welcome to Canada, where all of this has already come to pass in my Province. All public sector employees, hospital staff, snd other health care workers must be vaxxed or loose job. There is no option to test. Hospitals have had to close operating rooms as a result of so few staff. Elective surgeries canceled. The unvaxxed cannot get on a plane or train...there is no way to travel, even within the country. Proof of negative tests are not accepted. We are locked down.
I'm truly sorry about what's going on in Canada.
Eugyppius, Substack comments section on various pages, including yours, has been very buggy today. Some of us have been unable to reply, like, or expand comments unless we get lucky, even then, only one action before having to refresh the page. I'm contacting the authors to see if y'all have a good link to get help from Substack. I certainly hope this is not only on pages posting covid wrongthink. 🤨Thank you.
This was my experience this morning, as well. The problem seems to have gone away...for now.
Thank you. Your area sounds to be not far behind.
I don't know how to work it out but all over the western world I'm sure that in sober legal fact those administrators and department heads, even govt leaders, are acting illegally. For they're all worn to act for the benefit of the people. First and foremost. Isn't it?
And none of this can be shown to be of benefit to the people.
When the accounting gets done there's no doubt whatsoever that the damage bill they've created doesn't top many time over what it would have been if the situation were handled as normal and left alone by them.
So I don't know when or how but I'm very sure their criminality must be seen sooner or later. I just don't know why it is taking so long.
In my own country, my own State, we have a 'for instance'. For here the State Parliament votes every month or something to continue a 'State of Emergency' and that allows them to flount democratic norms, to in effect suspend democracy totally, martial law pertains if they wish, whatever they wish pertains, it is a tyranny if they like (and they do).
But there is no Emergency. And there never was.
Clearly. It can never be shown that the covid thing brought that kind of emergency into being.
Never. Anywhere. It was a canard.
And certainly not came and remained, month after month after month.
No way.
So it was clear over reach and improper conduct on the part of each and every member of parliament that voted for the measure and culpable on the part of every one that did not vote against.
That's the kind of thing I mean. 'First Principles'.
They are charged with protection.
They have brought harm.
That's worse than dereliction of duty in this instance, a whole nation, worse than mere fraud, worse than mere ineptitude, worse than any clumsy mistake.
You find the words for it. I'm fairly speechless.
>I don't know how to work it out but all over the western world I'm sure that in sober legal fact those administrators and department heads, even govt leaders, are acting illegally ... You find the words for it. I'm fairly speechless.
That's what they call "getting red-pilled"
I thought that meant being converted to extreme far right views?
Seeing this insanity, immense cost, immense harm, throwing away of democracy as what it is, is an 'extreme far right' view?
>I thought that meant being converted to extreme far right views?
Really it means what it meant in the movie - seeing things as they really are. It's considered "far right" because the current elite consensus in the US is progressive-left, and they call everything else "far-right". (As an aside, I think left/right is a false dichotomy)
Unlike in the movie, though, seeing things "as they are" in the real world is a non-ending process. You remove one veil only to find out later that what's behind it is just another veil.
In this case, at least, we have a definite minimal goal - survive until we do not have to be jabbed. The whole charade might be just running interference for something more sinister (as your second link suggests), but that should not worry us right now.
yep. seeing the truth is 'far right'. christ almighty.
Sorry, that was someone else's link. The same avatar - confused me
Oh, but it's the unvaxxed. Despite over 90% of the 12+ population being vaccinated.
I am locked down here with you Kw. You're not alone!
Germany stepping up as a contender to austria in the genocide any% speedrun.
Jokes aside tho the absurdities are starting to sting regular people in the eyes and they are seperating into these two groups. On one side the ever growing group of regular people who don't really care but played along when it was "for the greater good" or "protecting the hospitals" who are increasingly exasperated at the absolute state of corona containment.
On the other is the increasingly zealous covid karens constantly berating and annoying everyone about mask wearing and tHe ScIeNcE.
Send her here to Tennessee in USA. We love courageous, reasonable, articulate health care workers! And our Comptroller just smacked down mandates for health care workers. 👍
I just thought of something profound, the reason the USA has not gone full blown dictatorship, like Australia and EU, the 2nd amendment. Back to that good old constitution.
I don’t own a gun, but glad 80% of the US population does. Founding fathers saw the future & the incompetence of Government. Wise for 1776 …
Switzerland requires every home to have a gun, I think. Everyone is part of their defense force. Their approach to covid has seemed fairly rational. Trusting their people probably makes a difference. The US 2nd amendment is under attack because the government doesn't trust the people.
Swiss performance has been very good. O.13% of the population listed as covid fatality, 1.1% case fatality rate, probably due to rational treatment protocols. They have nearly a million listed as recovered, which gives them absolution from the testing and reporting requirements. I'd like to move there but it looks cold.
Sweden & Florida set the bar for this pandemic. It handled it following logic and science. Had no idea Swedes have guns in their homes. Love it
In the USA everything is under attack, but these guns, will never be taken away. Trust me.
>but these guns, will never be taken away
Never say "never". They succeeded in Australia...
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We have mass shooting everyday, the guns are still here. You'll never take their guns away. It will be a civil war. Maybe the assault rifles, but not the rest.
I used to think guns were the problem, they are not. It’s depression, psych meds (all young ppl in the USA are medicated), lies about history, addition to phones and so much more.
In high school many brought guns and knives to school. I’m a diff generation. No ever got shot or hurt, like now. I look back on all of this, glad this country still has some freedom left.
>Maybe the assault rifles
Sorry, but if you use the words "assault rifles" you already partially bought into their narrative. See, for example, the last paragraph here: https://qr.ae/pGl9Qj
I would like to see some contemporary accurate figures for CFR. Last I saw were from Prof Ioannidis and they were a lot less than any 1.1%. I think. Unless I"m mixing up PFR and CFR.
They're all suspect, of course. I just took cases and deaths from worldometer. Probably in the ballpark. Maybe the Swiss, being very precise about many things, are reporting more accurately than less competent locals like US.
The problem with case rates is many infections are mild and not reported. I would agree real rates are likely much lower, but its unknowable. We should always ask the basis of any statistics. They're often intended to mislead.
She must have known what she was in for--that's a lot of courage.
As a young man, I had many romantic notions about how I would react when Anne Frank knocked on my door. Now old I realize it's about how one lives with himself based on his response to the knock.
I'm not making excuses for the 'good Germans'. I have no skin in the game as all my ancestors came from Ireland to the US after the famine. Many German people were broken by the Great War. They were busy and distracted with deprivation and runaway inflation during Hitler's rise. IMO, by the time they realized how out of control the Nazis were and how mesmerized so many of their countryman were, the cost of opposition was too high.
I grew up with the grandchildren of survivors and so was a little obsessed with the Holocaust as a high school and college student...for a shiksa ;) . One image has stuck with me for years...an entire family hanging in the public square...mother, father, little children, and grandparents. As a young woman, it was easy to believe I would act with bravery... I'd like to think that I would have...but I understood how much more difficult the decision would be if I knew my parents and children would be executed for my choice. The people who took that risk were incredibly brave...as were their families.
I don't know what is happening or why or who...only that it has nothing to do with this virus or public health. We must oppose peacefully and give no quarter. The cost of opposition will only grow higher as time goes on. I don't think even most of us in the opposition...who are awake to the threat...truly understand what may be required of us to stop this tyrannical juggernaut.
Endless analysis of the quality and quantity of the rings your enemy is wearing as she punches you in the face is masochism. People know exactly what they have to do. "Doing" is huge hurdle for symbol manipulators.
Disembodiment/decadence catches up with us all.
I don't think people know exactly what they have to do. This is happening all over the world...very hard for many to get their heads around that reality.
Civil war and violent conflict may be unavoidable in many areas. But who is our enemy exactly...the bureaucracy, the cops enforcing insane rules, the people who are captured, those going along because they don't know what else to do?
What if they...whoever they are...want us to turn on each other? To be distracted while they accomplish their goals...whatever they are? We should all be firmly and peacefully non-compliant until and unless we have no other choice...'cause we might be playing right into their hands...whoever they are.
I'm listening to this dystopian story from a young woman in Australia.
https://unherd.com/thepost/inside-australias-covid-internment-camp/
A few days ago, I listened to this conversation with Ernst Wolff. Is he right? I hope not. Does it matter? I'm not sure it does. Which is worse...a global billionaire cabal taking over the planet...or a mass psychosis taking over the planet?
https://jermwarfare.com/blog/ernst-wolff
I agree that nobody "knows" what to do.
I'm suggesting that one prioritize stopping the ongoing punches to the face over contemplating the fate of Australians.
That crazy old symbol manipulator Peterson has done pretty well for himself pointing out that you have to be able to bench 50kg before you can 100kg.
I'm in the US, in a blue state that has not completely lost its mind...yet.
At present, I have three responsibilities:
- Follow what is going on locally and nationally.
- Follow what is going on globally.
- Pass on information to shake people from their trance.
IMO, most Americans have no idea what is happening in Australia, New Zealand, or Europe. There is a de facto news blackout. I only know what I know because I seek the information. On a daily basis, I encounter people on the evil bluebird and Fakebook and in real life who have no clue that the jabs don't stop infection or transmission...even though the CDC director admitted it over four months ago...even though governments have been rolling out boosters. I hate to admit it, but most Americans are low information and, frankly, stupid.
This psy-op has been very effective. The cognitive dissonance is very hard to break.
Austria and Germany and Australia are ahead of the US on this crazy curve. The fight is harder and the stakes are higher.
No doubt. Young Europeans are up against it once again. Interesting to see how they respond.
"Today’s circumstances require everyone’s prudence and consideration to help the sick as far as possible and to support overburdened healthcare staff. Disseminating videos such as this is surely no help in this regard."
1) The institute's response is itself imprudent.
2) Mandating jabs will not help the sick.
3) Firing staff will help neither the sick nor an overburdened staff.
Idiots are in charge of the world's major institutions.
she hurt them, you can tell. showed great spirit. good for her.
She is another casualty of the machine that is trying to grind us all, dehumanize us, coerce us, control us, monitor us ... The institution's response is so disproportionate and ridiculous, I wonder if she is surprised to have been fired, or if she knew she was taking a risk by posting the video? They just want to crush us. The machine appears happy to sacrifice anyone in the interest of its agenda -- the plan to vax even little kids shows the horrifying level of sacrifice that is coming.
I really hope that it might be the German "Mohammed Bouazizi" moment. Hope is not a plan, though
Hang in there! There must be a limit to this madness. We've only to hold out as long as possible. Perhaps throw spanners in the works where possible...
Unfortunately if we look at prior collectivist hysterias, the "limit" is that millions of people end up dead and the rest live in a dystopian dictatorship, some of which have still never ended.
The sort of people who fired this woman are the sort of people who cheered on the Red October. Not much was learned about the dangers of such people and their beliefs. As far as they're concerned, any criticism of authority makes people "sick" and this is immoral so such people must be punished as harshly as possible. The possibility that authority is wrong, just doesn't occur to them at all. The demonization of social media by the left contributes heavily to this mentality.
This isn't conflict between states or ethnic groups though and they will continue to bleed support the longer things go on. I can't see it escalating that far.
It's a conflict between the state and dissident groups, which is a pretty typical template. I also don't think they care about support that much, but even if they did, currently they have it.
Sorry. Not persuaded.
"There must be a limit to this madness."
One glanced at the twentieth century tells us those limits can be very deep indeed.
Only certain regions of the US are likely to survive: the God, Guns and Family zones. The West elsewhere is far too decadent and nihilistic to avoid the "Black Iron Prison".
We live in very different times. I really don't see the merit in this kind of baseless apocalyptic rhetoric
So are you saying "it can't happen here" or "I'm special" ?
No and yes I am very special. Thank you.
If people like this brave woman speak out individually, they can pick us off one by one. Maybe we are getting to a point where only concerted mass (group) action will get the government's attention.
"I'm Spartacus!"
Exactly. We need to start organising locally. Let us start wearing yellow jackets on weekends!
A bureaucrat (Söder? Habeck, Scholz? Ursula v.d. Layen????? ) has the right to decide how and in which frequency my body and the bodies of my children should be permanently modified? This is beyond any measure and those people have completely lost any sense for reality.
The young lady on this video is totally right! Do not bow to the pressure and lay down your work if you have to. I started my preparations for leaving the country. They are only bluffing! Those people are helpless if just 10% say 'hell no, I am laying down my work and going to live on social security'.
I am not in health care so nobody will have to suffer because I am not there but it will still be not very easy to replace my skills in the current market situation. Imagine what happens when 10% do this. Let the Söder, Lauterbach, von den Layen and alike 'rulers' clean their own toilets, run their own utilities and services, drive their own deliveries. They give orders but WE are the ones who do the jobs after all.
The whole system has mutated in an inverted world where the unproductive cargo-cult bureaucratic followers think they are the most important ones. Well NO, F**** NO! Can Germany actually afford to lose 10% working force? If that's their plan then they will get it but I am afraid this will be too much of a hit. They know very well that in 1Y with 95% vaxxed they will have full and understaffed hospitals. Therefore they will start the next distraction - war with Russia? Global internet outage?
There is now stopping if we do not stop them NOW!
El Gato was right all along: Become UNGOVERNABLE!
Maybe Germany will import another 1M-2M "engineers" from Syria and Afghanistan.
Ungovernable? If 90% of population complies, do you think any government gives a sh*t
if 10% don't like something? Do you think that large majority of the people who have already complied care about your reasons? No, large majority of the people are frustrated with the non-compliant people because they think they are the cause of this.
Most of the people have already complied and large majority of those who haven't yet will when vaccine mandates and fines come into play.
You're sadly right...and I must add, many that complied just to go to work or eat at the restaurant are angry because they feel like "I did it even if I didn't want to, SO you have to do the same and shut up" kind of thing...human nature...sheesh..
I believe you underestimate the power of civil disobedience. I think if 10% of the population engaged in well-organized, carefully coordinated resistance, it would prove more than adequate to gum up the gears of this monstrosity. The tipping point has been found to be even lower than that, at around 3.5%. I'm certainly no Pollyanna, but at this point we have no choice but to give it our all, even if the odds appear hopelessly stacked against us.
Maybe. But I grew up in a communist country where majority of the people were either against it or were largely ambivalent. It took 40-50 years for the system to finally crumble (and I still don't know why it did).
It's really hard to get even 1%-2% of population to really care. That's especially true now in the west: people have more or less everything and are extremely easily distracted (internet, smartphones, etc.) and divided. And if they are not distracted, maybe they are worried about paying their mortgage and keeping
their jobs. Or they simply don't care enough (eg, privacy issues on the internet / smartphones, surveillance, etc.).
Please don't think I'm being dismissive of your concerns, because I don't disagree about how challenging it is. Even more so it's incumbent upon those of us that are "awake" , stop tiptoeing through this dystopian nightmare and let the monsters pretend they own reality. I admit that I've yet to figure out the next step, so admittedly my post to you was more an appeal than a roadmap. But I do strongly believe that we've decidedly taken the first step by not getting the jab. Those that have gotten jabbed can take their first concrete step by not getting boosted and by not getting their kids jabbed. I see a bit of hope there, because I know plenty of people who were on board with the first jab(s) but are now saying "heck no", and many that are definitely not interested in subjecting their kiddos to it. As for next steps, I firmly believe that a withdrawal of support from certain targeted institutions is a must. Ideally a boycott should be wide-spread to have a maximum impact, so that's perhaps where we could rally our like-minded cohorts to be disciplined and just say no to certain non-essentials. I've found it hard to swallow the crap coming out of most of the media, especially entertainment, so cancelling subscriptions and memberships to fanatical vaxx supporting entities would be a small but healthy step (if for nothing more than to put that money and time to better use). I've also found that just speaking up is a form of civil disobedience. Stating your position very matter-of-factually and in no uncertain terms, can strengthen others that need a bit of encouragement to buck the narrative. Next up? I think protests and walkouts for sure. I agree that this will take time, but the longer we wait to go "all in" the longer it will take to undo the tyranny.
I agree in principle. And there's many different ways of protesting making a stand, etc. Everything you said could and may work and may be enough to make a difference and bring change.
Or not. Communism lasted very long time. It crumbled very very quickly
and dominos fell insanely fast. I am still surprised how quickly it unravelled, but I also can't really pin point why (or how) it collapsed.
Maybe the same thing happens here -- maybe one of hundred things
causes it all to tumble down.
I support civil disobedience. But what are some examples of civil disobedience in this case? To not wear a mask when told to? To enter a store without showing the vaxpass? I'd be interested to hear creative ideas about civil disobedience against these covid policies.
Also, don't forget that proponents of civil disobedience, like Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Cesar Chavez told their followers: when you engage in civil disobedience, you have to be ready to accept the consequences of it, which can include imprisonment, beatings, loss of employment, and even death. So, civil disobedience can entail major sacrifice by the protesters.
Good question.
In most places governments outsourced compliance to businesses themselves
who now have to check for passes and ensure people wear masks or make sure they are ok with required capacity. They can be fined or shutdown themselves if they don't do it. It's lame if we blow off people who work there -- it's not their fault.
One thing that could work is a general strike or people not showing up for work or businesses closing up for a while. But what's the chance of that? Most of the people are "working" from home and they don't have much at stake. They would be just hurting themselves in the short term. For what? For something as abstract as "freedom" that everybody takes for granted?
Let me add that I think the planned digital vaxpass will function to enforce compliance and prevent civil disobedience. If all aspects of your life -- employment, housing, health insurance, school enrollment, pension, travel tickets, banking, etc. -- are tied to your current vax status as registered in the central database, this will be a big deterrent from protesting the system. The Stasi would have LOVED to have this kind of info and control over the people. Just think: the protesters in 1989 were largely an anonymous crowd. The police and secret police arrested some of them, and could then identify them. But who was in the crowd? They didn't know. But with today's technology, if you need to carry the vaxpass on your smartphone, they will geolocate you, they'll know who you communicate with, where you go, who you meet with -- everything! It creates a web of compliance, a "matrix" if you will.
Most countries don't have the technology (and manpower) to do this kind of massive surveillance and they are also largely incompetent (for now -- this will likely change in the future).
But the first part where every aspect of your life is tied to some pass could happen especially in countries that have centralized everything. The crazy thing is that most people (especially younger generations) are completely ok with that. They claim it's "convenient" to have everything tied to smartphone.
Mhmmm...
They are already talking about huge fines in Austria and Greece for people who are not vaccinated.
Well, I am most concerned about the EU since that's where I live, and I think the EU has the technology, manpower and budget to implement something like this; an EU-wide centralized database enabling a digital vaxpass was already being planned by the EU prior to covid. Maybe other countries would have trouble creating, paying for, and maintaining such a system, but I think the plan is to use AI to manage the system, which might streamline logistics and costs. I think I was reading that India was trying to implement such an electronic system to manage health care and distribution of public subsidies (e.g. pensions, food subsidies, etc.).
See my lengthy reply to Ivan. Admittedly there will be sacrifices, but it's abundantly clear that even in the absence of our "contrarianism" the sacrifices have been, and will continue to, pile up. I think small acts can do wonders, and I'm trying to outline further steps for myself. The next moves have proven to be a challenge for our crowd, perhaps because we're independent thinkers and don't naturally gravitate toward groupings. This insanity that's taken hold of the world over the past nearly 22 months, has brought a rag-tag group of people who may previously had little reason to organize, under one umbrella. Getting to the next step is an ongoing process, so take small steps until the bigger movements can congeal.
Good points. We are being slowly, relentlessly, inexorably led to the slaughter -- excluded, marginalized, scapegoated. Or maybe not so slowly. The rhetoric has definitely heated up in the last 1-2 weeks, with Austria setting the example. Look how vax rtes jumped in France in the summer right after Macron threatened tightening the vaxpass requirements -- people who didn't want to get the vax got it, as the pressure increased. I'm afraid you're right the same will happen as the mandates and fines are put in place. Those who are really hard core and still won't get the vax will be a very small minority -- easily ignored and dealt with.
The thing is, it's not a matter of getting vaxxed and getting it over with. It's biannual boosters now. Take a look at this (in Czech):
https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/ockovaci-certifikaty-zmena-adam-vojtech-platnost-ockovani-koronavirus_2112021330_voj?_ga=2.138859635.1158124793.1638447236-416725560.1638447235
There you have it. Regular boosters, or else. There are quite a lot of people who got these shots and had a bad reaction. Not necessarily a horrific reaction, but bad enough to spook a person. For instance, an irregular heartbeat for a couple of weeks. Or, high fever accompanied by severe exhaustion for several days. I keep hearing about stuff like this (and I don't just mean on Internet forums). It's quite a lot of people, actually. How many will want a booster after that?
You're absolutely right and people like Fauci, Vojtech, Babis, Ursula, and others talk blithely about "everyone has to get the jab, it's the only way out of the pandemic" without explaining it means signing up to regular future shots. This shows the myopia that has characterized the policy response and the media coverage -- and hence people's understanding of the situation -- since this epidemic began, and that I think is so dangerous: they focus only on the immediate here-and-now, without considering long-term implications. In some countries, I think the space between boosters is down to 5, 4 and even 3 months to be considered "fully vaxxed". When is this virus going to be declared endemic so we can get on with our lives?
Oh, and I forgot: Fauci, Vojtech, Babis, Ursula, and others who push the vax not only don't talk about the boosters, they also don't talk about the inevitable and logically necessary digital vax pass that everyone will have to use to show their current vax status. The vaxpass will lead to totalitarianism: it will enable a level of surveillance, control, and data gathering that the KGB and Stasi could only dream of. Anyone who pushes universal injection, anyone who entertains the idea of mandates -- is promoting totalitarianism. It's that simple.
The vaccine passports in EU have been in the works before COVID-19
(and not related to this pandemic).
Many countries have everything tied together via an ID number.
Namely, you need this ID number to do anything: open bank count, get a job, renew driver's license / passport, etc. If they tie vaccine status with
that ID number, it's game over. But again, it's game over for 5%-10%
of the people. The rest will just comply.
That's what I have been wondering for 18 months now. What is an event
(or situation) that will trigger end to this? I don't see it.
More more countries are just doubling down on the same measures (masks, closures) and vaccines. Even countries that were relatively reasonable (eg, Sweden) the story is the same.
If people (I mainly mean bureaucrats and other desk jockeys) couldn't work from home, this would have been over a long time ago or it would never have been an issue.
Yes, exactly. There's pressure from governments (fines, mandates, lockdowns, etc.), but there's also pressure from within the population.
I am looking at my own situation: I am not vaccinated, because I believe that in
the long run I am better off without it. It's the same risk analysis I do for a yearly flu shot. But more or less I can't go anywhere anymore and I can't do anything.
My life would be so much simpler if I just took the shot. So, the pressure governments apply is working. If they start fines (and they have ability to request
the fine directly from banks -- they do it for taxes), how long can I maintain this?
oh, yes the government does give a shit. If 10% vote in a specific way, given 50% participation, might bring you a 15%+ of the votes.
if 10% do not show up at work then actually a lot will brake down.
But who do you vote as alternative? Look at Germany. CDU and Social Democrats are proposing the same solutions to COVID-19.
Can you name one country that would have different measures if the opposition was in power?
Canada the ' opposition ' folded and rolled over to comply- disgusting! Very low voter turn out , too -instinctively most people know these elections are a farce! We have a right wing party that gained votes but no seats.
It was not a topic at the previous elections because everybody declared NOT to consider vaccine mandates. It will change drastically at the next elections. Of course they do it now, when they are freshly elected.
Maybe. But I suspect that the 10% who are not complying don't vote.
Who is still unvaccinated:
- hard-core anti vaxxers: they will not get vaccinated no matter what
- some elderly and frail: too sick to get to a vaccination place or get a vaccine
- people who fell through the cracks (and stopped participating in society)
Nope, not the case. I know some and indeed very smart and productive people who are not vaccinated. Also many will not get boosted - The sister of a close friend got a frightening heart condition after moderna: they will not get boosters. Get them on the 10%. The son of a neighbour (16Y) had a seizure 2w after 2nd BNT dose - they will still get boosted ... speechless.
Try to win some hearts, Ivan. Be a good example. Plant some healthy scepticism in people you know. Do not push them - just tell them some facts and totally agree with their decision. It should be THEIR INFORMED decision not their PROPAGANDISED decision. That's all.
Yes, the bad reactions to the vaccine cannot be hidden forever, and it is definitely waking people up! Everyone knows someone who died or had a reaction. There is speculation, though , about how many higher ups actually RECEIVED a real vaccine, and if the boosters will be placebos for some. I know someone who is positive there was nothing in their second shot-no reaction whatsoever .
What does it really mean to be ungovernable? Europeans are very governable. Look around in your population: who is really ungovernable? I would say certain minority groups, maybe those living in "no-go zones" and the Roma, for example. They are the really ungovernable ones. The police are even afraid to go into their neighborhoods. Think they'll get the shot?
One more thought on this: maybe one way the groups I mentioned could be pressured to get the vax (along with other holdouts) would be to make welfare payments contingent on vax status. No public subsidies -- in Europe this might include health insurance, child support, parental leave and support, student stipends, unemployment benefits, etc. -- for those who don't get vaxxed and use the vaxpass.
Even so, maybe the "ungovernable" groups I mentioned before, in their banlieus and no-go zones, would find work-arounds, like fake vaxpasses. Or, maybe they would just accept not getting the public handouts anymore.
I see your points, 'Your name' and Ivan, and understand that becoming ungovernable is a personal decision as to how far can you go. It depends if you have family, mortgage and so on, BUT:
1. NOBODY can force you to go to work. If you do not go to work then your job is not being done. Everything is quite optimised and 10% are not few.
2. Social welfare is actually a bad idea if you are really depending on it - you become totally dependable.
3. Elections will come - choose wisely!
4. Can afford to emigrate?
- I tell you in eastern europe you will not see enforceable mandates very soon. People have never trusted their governments and will not trust them on that one. Real estate is dirt cheap.
- If you are in the position to emigrate to Florida/Texas/... then wow, I am happy for you! Even UK - I do not think the people will tolerate general mandates there. I Work with lot's of UK based folks and even if most of them being jabbed they have a totally different state of mind. I think this will not happen there. I believe the nordic states will not do it as well but who knows. I am sorry to say this but the pattern 'Austria followed suit by Germany' is not arbitrary. Let them not succeed this time. Switzerland - not sure!
5. I see it like this: those people are trying to kill me and my children. Will I cooperate to save my wage, my mortgage, my social status? Will a cooperate and support such a government with my taxes? Should I do this for my kids, so that they can have a bright future of bureaucrats jabbing them each X months?
6. Start a religion: the holy body :) Jabs will be against it.
Choose your way to resist. I wish I had better ideas now but do not. Somebody else might indeed have so we implement them.
I'm not sure eastern europe is really such a haven from the madness. I hope you're right, but the noises being made here are not good. Already countries like Latvia, I think, are using vaxpasses. Viktor Orban has said everyone should get jabbed, and recently the Czech President talked about mandatory jabs to a meeting of the Visegrad Four group. Slovakia is more totalitarian than Czechia -- I've heard you can't even go to church there. And further east, I don't think things are much better, frankly.
Sorry to hear this. I come from further east. In my home country I think less than 30% are vaccinated. If this gets to 60-70% they might try but not before that. And after this the real struggle beggins - how to control and enforce it. People in the rural areas are so fed up with the politicians that they will precisely avoid getting vaccinated if mandated :). Yes Bulgaria was shamefully on the side of Germany in WW2 but actually there was a popular uprising in favour of the Bulgarian Jews so they were not deported to the Nazi concentration camps.
People there are street smart and natively distrust elites. I have many friends who are vaccinated but they are not freaking out at the "unclean" as I see it in Germany. The madness here is staggering.
Interesting insights about Bulgaria. And I hope you're right the vax rate stays low there, and the people remain skeptical. But consider this: even in rural areas, aren't smart phones popular? And we know that smartphones are already an instrument of surveillance and control. What if the EU implements a Europe-wide vaxpass app. Or there is even a global vaxpass standard. Many Bulgarians still may not want to get vaxxed, but if they want to travel, work abroad, do internet banking, study abroad, etc., they'll have to have this app and an approved current vax status. That would be a powerful way to coerce even rural eastern Europeans. That might be the matrix people like Ursula are driving us toward. Fine, the Eurocrats will say, if some elderly retired widow in Apriltsi doesn't want to get the vax maybe we'll let people like her slip through the cracks for now. She'll still be entered in the database, and she won't be able to participate in public life, though. But the younger generation, they want to travel, study, make money, be cosmopolitan. The EU vaxpass would be key for them to do that.
#5, exactly
Another thing: can we 'apply' for controlled infection as an alternative. We visit hospital, get infected and are exempt. We sign that in case of severe covid we are not going to go to hospital. I know this is stupid but given the negative efficacy of the jabs against symptomatic disease (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410) it is still the preferable choice.
My wife was feeling ill last week and was almost hopeful it was Covid so she could get the 6-month pass. Apparently, to get the pass, you have to go to a testing center to get proof you are infected. So, at the first sign of feeling sick, she wanted to travel to a testing center. I said that was crazy, if she's feeling sick she should rest at home and take medications to try to get better. But then she said, if she gets better without the test, even if it was Covid she couldn't get the pass, so in effect she would have had covid "for nothing". Anyway, I prevailed in this conversation and she rested and is better now. Don't know if it was covid or not, but I doubt it.
Haha! I got my first positive self-test on a Sunday (too late go to the test center), and then I got myself a PCR test first thing on Monday. Positive. Phew. Mind you, my COVID experience was terrible (worst "flu" I ever had), but hey, I now have a piece of paper for six months.
The problem is that the exemption is only good for 6 months...
Well go and expose again. Seriously, I think of doing some community work in a hospital. Want to help ... oh wait I'm not jabbed
They are bluffing because if 10% say HELL NO they cannot enforce it. 10% in Germany is 8M people. At the current state of affairs they cannot afford to
persecute, arrestt and imprison so many. Given 30% unvaccinated, say 20% unvaccinated adults, yes they are bluffing. If we stand and do not comply they cannot enforce it. This is the definition of a bluff.
Yes, a big IF about how many will still stand after the next round of coercion! Prayers for all the brave people !
Time is against them actually. Vaccines are failing badly. Their only escape scenario is a Marek effect and a variant which is mild for the vaccinated but severe for the unvaccinated. The trajectory to this is to let thevirus evolve in the vaccinated but take the unvaccinated out of the equation by locking them down. This is what we are seeing and they are really hoping for the Marek effect. Omicron is exactly the opposite - a mild variant. Therefore they are freaking about it. Omicron seems to be a gift from the nature.
Genau. The civil disobedience tipping point would be exceeded if even half the unjabbed adults stop playing the game, withdraw their cooperation, and protest en masse.
To be honest, ABC, I am not so optimistic that this will be stopped in Germany or Austria. People here trust authorities too much. I guess this is what you would call sheeple
Saw the videos yesterday. Though they were so great. Finally a viral moment in Bayern to counter the prevailing pandemic of the unvaxxed bullshit! But then.. simply pathetic that she is fired the next day.
This whole ratcheting up of the sanctioned and widely supported discrimination against the unvaxxed is making me feel like a freaking leper in my adopted homeland.
Has no politician noticed the hospitalisation rate has already been falling for almost weeks? Or that the 7-day case incidence crested on the 20th November and has been falling for a week now?
This official response is a joke.
that’s the craziest thing right now, that the wave has collapsed and they’re still freaking out.