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Ryan Gardner's avatar

I'll say it again:

The process is the punishment. The whole idea is to make surveillance permanent in its effect, even if it's episodic in its action.

The end result is the "subject" becomes the principle of his own subjection.

Infinite examination = compulsory objectification.

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Charlotte's avatar

This is why a Gofundme style campaign to raise funds to defend them would be helpful. The punishment is meant to demoralize and shame the person being prosecuted. They will feel alone and so many will remain silent in defending them for fear of also being persecuted. But a Gofundme or givesendgo campaign would help them feel how much support they have. It defrays legal costs and afford them the very best lawyer. And people can give anonymously.

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Tardigrade's avatar

I've suggested the very same thing, as have many others. I bet if that ever got going, the German government would make it illegal for people to accept financial assistance, especially from outside Germany.

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vinegaroon's avatar

Three German independent journalists were sanctioned by the EU last month. Their assets have been frozen, and yes, it is illegal for them to either earn or to be given any money. Eugyppius, do you take requests? I'd love to hear your take on this.

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Charlotte's avatar

They had their assets frozen? It sounds like a violation of their “human rights”. I mean freezing all assets also ensures you can’t afford good legal representation. Of course, in the EU, “human rights” are only applied selectively to the protected classes…

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Henrybowman's avatar

To my understanding, this is a direct violation of Article 23 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which clearly states that "Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment."

Not that I agree with any statement of "human rights" that includes positive rights (rights that impose a duty on others to provide you goods and services, rather than just forbidding them to impede you as you provide for yourself), but a nation that DOES agree with this should not be hypocritically violating it.

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Charlotte's avatar

I’m sure the German court would subpoena the list of names and their addresses. But it would still help prove a point.

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Ryan Gardner's avatar

Great comment. Agree 100%

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JBS's avatar

Be afraid and stay silent. Yes.

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Bash's avatar

I remember that story of the Swedish girl who got her friends to lynch that guy. Pretty sure 99% of people reading this comment will have smiled when they read that headline, as I did.

As for DE, Eugyppius, it must be painful to chronicle the demise-by-retard of the Federal Republic of Germany. But, how bad do things have to get?

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Matthew McWilliams's avatar

The first question that should be asked about that lynching in Sweden is why exactly that fellow was walking around the streets, and therefore available to be lynched? Once that question is answered, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer already, then the authorities will have some inkling of why he was lynched, and why so many people, including me, approve of it.

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JBS's avatar

👍👍👍 to dead child rapists.

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SCA's avatar

What Westerners fail to understand is how brutally transgressors against the social norm are punished in their own countries (though those punishments always fail, of course, to extirpate the behaviors from society. It is a matter of punishing each transgressor as best one can.)

It's not acceptable, in Pakistan or in any other Muslim country, to harass women on public transport, even though women are routinely harassed there. There is always a women's row or a women's rail car etc. etc. but louts will always lay their hands on you if they can.

Western officials trying earnestly to tell migrants that rape is not acceptable are speaking to people *who already know* that rape is not acceptable. They will attempt it anyway.

I suspect the courts in Germany are trying as desperately as they can to avoid in-person trials because judges who must endlessly convict ordinary people for ordinary mild reactions will soon begin the awful interior journey of seeing themselves as buffoons.

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eugyppius's avatar

Absolutely. The only way to deal with this (practically speaking) is by ditching much of our elaborate due process and resorting to crude, on-the-spot measures like corporal punishment (i.e., the police kick your ass and tell you to get lost). Otherwise the courts and prosecutors are swamped with an infinitude of cases, the migrant who is on his fifth retail theft and on probation for rape finally gets brought up on groping charges two years later, etc. It's madness.

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SCA's avatar

I'm presently watching a Turkish TV series on Netflix about a female police official heading a unit dedicated to solving cases of murdered women and regularly despairing about the frequency of the crime. Quite interesting is how she and another female police character are seen wearing tight revealing tops; another female police character presented as "queer."

Any German official imagining that Turks in Germany are swept from their cultural moorings by seeing the outline of German titties under tee-shirts in German parks needs some corporal punishment himself.

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Alistair Penbroke's avatar

Netflix is the best. Dept Q is a cop show in which the only competent cop is a Syrian immigrant who came to Scotland because his wife was a doctor.

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SCA's avatar

That tends to be the type of show I despise. In the same class of show with the ones featuring the autistic gal with poor hygiene as the only cop able to solve anything.

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Henrybowman's avatar

I much preferred the mysophobic male cop with neurotic hygiene. 😁

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SCA's avatar

Oh God. I couldn't get through one episode of that show.

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Gary S.'s avatar

One day last year I watched an episode of Dr. Martin, a BBC series. All the adults with jobs worked for the government. The cop in the cast of characters only functioned to oppress someone trying to give away free veterinarian service on a sidewalk, and when searching for a missing person, a 9-year-old boy was more competent than the cop. That's the leftist view of life.

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Susan G's avatar

OMG, I just am amazed at your take on Doc Martin. My husband and I both love the show.

I see the show as a sweet, often silly view of village life, an exploration of love in its many manifestations, and a look at male/female relations in the early 21st century. Doc Martin, the main character, is indeed employed by the government (as are almost all physicians in Britain). Louisa, his romantic interest and later wife, is a teacher, then head, of a state elementary school. Normal. The incompetent policeman enforcing ridiculous laws is a running joke.

Doc Martin's character is "unwoke" in the extreme, pompous, and rude, unusual in a lead character. Yet the skill of the scripts, and the lead actors talent, make we viewers like and care for him.

I see nothing leftist in the viewpoint of the show. I've seen every episode, and wish there were more shows like it available.

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RiverHollow's avatar

Beating them up may be in order, but telling them to get lost is cruel to the body politic. If their crime is severe enough, capital punishment is owed. Otherwise they should be held for the next boxcar heading out of the continent.

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eugyppius's avatar

I would envision as a penalty for many misdemeanour offences, where the cost and tedium of indictments and trial are enormous and where the penalties have no deterrent effect anyway, and in the present Germany that can't manage deportations for love or money.

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RiverHollow's avatar

Fair enough. I just refuse to restrict my vision, and I regard incrementalism as not viable. Where we need to be does not change so much as how we get there.

Having people on the same page as to where we need to be allows for parallel effort in getting there. Incrementalism fails to build the necessary momentum to be dangerous to the barriers in our way.

In my opinion, Germans, like the rest of us, must demand of themselves a radical departure from the insanity and fictions which have been imposed on them. Regardless, good work.

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Gary S.'s avatar
6hEdited

People are still sentenced to caning in Singapore, and this seems appropriate for third-world immigrant ferals. When dealing with feral people (who have short time horizons), it stands to reason that strict enforcement, prompt sentencing, and physical punishment work best.

https://transformativejusticecollective.org/2023/10/20/getting-caned-by-the-singaporean-state/

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EppingBlogger's avatar

The current system of criminal justice seems only to work when there is little offending. However, the liberal left has reduced penalties for all offences we care about so no tempted offender is discouraged.

Only opponents of the state are harshly and arbitrarily dealt with.

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Dolce Far Niente's avatar

Actually, the only way to deal with this is to stop trying to mix oil and water without an emulsifier.

You will not be able to make these third world invaders adopt Western morals and mores en masse. One at a time, under your regularized immigration rules, possibly.

But large groups who are allowed to continue their cultural mayhem because progressives have a twisted view of compassion? It is bound to fail, and that disastrously. They. Must. Leave.

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air dog's avatar

Some of the judges may even be decent people, who would refuse to convict or sentence for such "crimes".

Maybe.

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SCA's avatar

We've seen throughout the entirety of Our Plague Era and counting what decent people have gone along with.

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Nicolas Léonard's avatar

True, but that is mostly towards members of the in-group. For members of the out-group (yeah, obviously, the non-muslim), anything goes.

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SCA's avatar

Absolutely incorrect.

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IceSkater40's avatar

The eventual outcome is nobody expresses their opinion honestly and then change happens at the ballot box. The pollsters and left parties will think they’ve done an amazing job at silencing opposition and then be stunned to see an AfD victory. I hope it’s sooner rather than later for your sake. Or that the lawlessness affects the upper echelons of politicians sooner rather than later so that they are to do something.

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Andrew Marsh's avatar

Much as liberal elements think the 'far right' (i.e., anyone that does not fit their world view and has labels that are not pretty) are the problem, it is the liberal elements that are the issue. The endless name calling, endless non-debate, endless competition for worthiness -the whole lot is a shallow imitation of real life.

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Henrybowman's avatar

They simply get out ahead of you by outlawing the alternative party first.

Oh look! They're already doing that!

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IceSkater40's avatar

They’ve tried but Imfrok eugyppius has said it’s unlikely they would succeed. If they did, something else would take its place. But they should hope to fail since AfD does care about democracy and would be solid leaders from everything I’ve seen Eugyppius say about them. They seem to care more about the constitution than the left who only cares about propagating their own ideals.

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Suzie's avatar

I thank God every day for the indescribable bravery of President Trump in fulfilling his promise to deport as many of the, by some counts, 50 million illegal migrants that poured over our border over the last four years.

I knew it would not be a pleasant task, and would evoke all kinds of wailing and gnashing of teeth by the all the usual suspects, but that it was beyond essential for the very stability and security of the nation.

The leaders of Germany, as in the UK and other European countries, will never muster that same incomprehensible courage it will take them to reverse the now possibly irreversible damage they’ve inflicted upon their countries and peoples.

Trump has benefited by the fact that the majority who elected him, voted for just what he is doing and back him to the hilt, even when it gets ugly.

Until the German people are allowed to elect the government of their choosing things will only get worse, far worse.

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ZuZu’s Petals's avatar

I can’t tell you how much I agree with your comment.

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Entirely Coincidental's avatar

A simple solution does exist. Stop paying non-Germans to live in your country. They will then leave. A few will stick around and steal, but by and large, they will leave.

It's a solution that's neither cruel nor violent, and it violates no human rights. Simply remove the incentive for them to stay. They will leave.

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eugyppius's avatar

oh I agree. unfortunately, we have developed an entire body of jurisprudence that essentially decrees state entitlements a human right. all of that will have to be changed to restrict benefits to citizens, which is the only sane policy.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

just like some of the blue states.

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Jim Brown's avatar

Clearly, the welfare state and open immigration cannot coexist.

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RiverHollow's avatar

We can do better. Not only welfare, but our sanctity is not theirs to share in. They are outlaws to which our polity owes no protection. We should give no validity to this poisonous legal concept of 'human rights' by attempting to tip-toe around its vacuous stipulations.

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vinegaroon's avatar

I just saw a headline from Tagesschau (the German public broadcaster's news program) about how robots can be used in the future to care for the elderly. Wait, I thought that was the excuse for bringing in millions of unskilled foreigners - to take care of an ageing population. What a joke.

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Viv's avatar

Germany before the election: We need migrants to pay the pensions!

Germany after the election: Pensioners need to be forced back to work to pay for migration!

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Trish's avatar

This reminds me of the Grooming Gangs cover up in the UK. When you import people from low trust societies to high trust, moral societies, chaos is bound to ensue. The chaos benefits those in control.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

It has now become worse than a third world country. In their own country these people would be lynched or stoned or whatever, by their own. But because they are foreigners, and because for 50 or more years Europeans have been told to be 'gentle' towards foreigners, the situation has completely run out of hand. And Europeans are too polite to cause un upheaval of kinds. Recently a Dutch woman wrote, how she dare not let her teenage daughters go out on the street, not even in daytime.

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vinegaroon's avatar

Even the "worst of the worst" Afghan criminals who were repatriated from Germany right before an election as a political stunt were all given €1000 cash. Because it would violate EU law and European values to force them to live in poverty! Meanwhile the uncomfortable reality of German citizens digging through trashcans goes ignored.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

so it does not violate EU law, that citizens of their own country live in poverty. Quite some Americans live on the streets too, veterans die in big cities, left behind by their own country. But foreigners are given luxurious hotel rooms, cell phones, food, medical care (which quite some Americans cannot get) and money. I hope this will come to an end. This is a slap in the face of us legal immigrants, and of all the legal people that live in poverty.

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Pnoldguy's avatar

It's also a major slap in the face to the taxpayers forced to pay for these luxuries when, in many cases, those paying cannot afford the very same luxuries.

It's always the taxpayer that gets the shaft and as soon as people realize it's the elected (selected) class that is the cause of it all, nothing will change. Trump is on the right track but until some judges hang, the clock will run out on him.

I look for world upheaval within a decade or two. Got ammo?

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

knitting needles

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Viv's avatar
4hEdited

Europe's open border policy is an invitation to every third world shit hole to open their prisons and assist their various criminals to leave Shitholeistan in the direction of Europe. With doubtless assistance, cash incentives, etc.

Exile was in the past a common punishment. No leave to settle within fifty leagues of Rome type stuff. We're enabling the entire third world to shift the burden of their criminals to us under the guise of humanitarianism.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

I read that Venezuela got all its prisoners on buses and brought them to the US border a few years ago. No wonder the gangs are all here causing havoc. Recently the border was empty as in Zero border crossers. And that is how it should be. And only legal crossers if any.

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la chevalerie vit's avatar

If only social media would supplement the "Like" button with a "I do not endorse this comment nor Nazism in any way although I chuckled when I read it" button.

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la chevalerie vit's avatar

She is charged for pressing "Like", a greatly reductive human-machine-interface element.

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Henrybowman's avatar

Life... uh... finds a way.

Yelp.com is a site that allows customers of retail establishments (mostly restaurants) to review their experiences. Reviewers can also express their opinions of other reviews. Earlier versions of the site provided the standard up and down thumbs, but then the woke declared the down-thumb option socially derogatory and had it removed (it's a tiny hate crime, don't you understand?).

Now you are allowed to express your opinion only via four provided buttons, all "socially positive": Helpful, Thanks, Love This, and Oh No. The semantics of Oh No being fatally ambiguous, website users seem to have spontaneously co-opted it to represent, "You're An Idiot/Whiner/Troll." Any viewer can verify this by reading a selection of one-star reviews of five-star establishments, and correlating the rational tenor of a negative review against the number of Oh Noes it has collected.

People want to (and WILL) express their disapproval, whether or not officials "allow' them the opportunity.

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la chevalerie vit's avatar

I’ll wait for an expressive, nuanced array of Like buttons that reflect the copious Colors of the Wind. 🎶

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RiverHollow's avatar

Not only was it a justified vigilante killing, but those who do not support it should themselves be considered criminal outlaws. The state is at fault for not condemning him to the gallows faster.

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la chevalerie vit's avatar

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”

― Joseph Goebbels

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/281832.Joseph_Goebbels

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John Lester's avatar

I wonder if some of this is German guilt over at least WW2 and feeling they must be better than anyone else. More open and welcoming. It's hard to imagine an ethnic people with thousands of years of history would act this way.

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Suzie's avatar

Suicidal empathy.

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eugyppius's avatar

that's definitely a part of it.

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John Lester's avatar

I was thinking about that guilt later. Considering that Germany was under a Kaiser for WW1, the people had no say about going to war then they were brutalized after that war by the winners, then the Depression. Flocking to Hitler is fully understandable to me. Then they certainly paid for that in 44 and 45. I could see the elite, who have no guilt, using that as a weapon to build their new world since it will not really affect them.

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Lukas Chlebovec's avatar

Reminds me of the ideals of the royal family in Attack on Titans: only Germans should die for their sins, noone else!

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air dog's avatar
6hEdited

"you agreed with this post..."

"you were aware..."

"you were publicly condoning intentional killing"

"you were particularly pleased..."

"you also...sought to mock further by referring to heavenly virgins"

"you had no objective knowledge that the victim of the vigilante justice was a Muslim."

The mind-reading powers of German bureaucrats are truly astounding! If only they were used for good, instead of evil.

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Henrybowman's avatar

The Shadow knows... but then we all learned what "the Dark Side" meant.

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air dog's avatar
4hEdited

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"

Precisely! And now also a bunch of German paper pushers, apparently.

The Shadow was a few years before my time, but I did hear a few re-runs in my youth, and will never forget his menacing laugh.

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Andrew Marsh's avatar

In the 1980s a British comedy programme 'Not the 9 o'clock news' had a long-running sketch about 'Police Constable Savage'. Here's a sample of the sketch, where the senior officer (Rowan Atkinson) reprimands Constable Savage (Grif Rhys Jones) for charging people with the following offenses:

Urinating in a public convenience

Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing

Coughing without due care and attention

Wearing a loud shirt in a residential area during the hours of darkness

Walking around with an offensive wife

Being in possession of curly hair

Putting litter in a public bin

Putting your bin out too early

Putting the wrong sort of garbage in your bin

Not closing the lid of your bin properly

Walking around in a public park without being accompanied by a child

Allowing your children to draw hopscotch squares on the floor

Allowing your children to build a treehouse

Taking a photograph of a police officer

Perhaps the politicians thought this was a template?

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ZuZu’s Petals's avatar

Brilliant - I used to think this was satirical, nowadays I’m not so sure.

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Andrew Marsh's avatar

I remember the first line, and then it exploded by the time of the 'wife' comment, and off the chair by the loud shirt line.

Yes, I can see Mr 'I am the law' Starmer KC, former DPP, soon to be former PM, stating all of these are real crimes. Scary.

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Henrybowman's avatar

I can find you a number of polities in the US where the last two are actual offenses. In some, the last one is an actual crime. Until recently forced to recant, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts unreasonably contended for decades that recording the speech or activities of a police officer, in a public place, in an entirely non-covert manner, somehow violated their "wiretap" laws.

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Andrew Marsh's avatar

That's awful. Still, I assume each person in each State knows how the law works and can avoid breaking it whenever possible.

Now. I've just arrived over the border without permission, don't have any papers but do have a mobile phone. Could there be a small breach of a law or two?

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Tardigrade's avatar

I remember that!

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Andrew Marsh's avatar

Good to see the sketch in full. My brother reminded me about the offence of walking on the cracks of the 'pavement' (side walk). That's pretty full-on. If this goes out on social meeedjah, it'll be prison and no mistake.

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Tardigrade's avatar

'increasingly scarce judicial resources'

Commenting before finishing the article so maybe you address it later.

No wonder judicial resources are scarce if they're spending so much time prosecuting bullshit like this.

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ZuZu’s Petals's avatar

Eugyppius, as I read through this disheartening post I could only reflect on the similarities between Germany and England - the attitudes of the authorities in each country are practically identical.

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