436 Comments
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someothercat's avatar

Here is my take on forced vaccinations.

As the government(s) must know about the adverse effects and excess mortality figures and in general the dangerosity of these products, imposing vaccination is equivalent to actively trying to injure and/or murder people.

In this case, I believe that a right of self-defense applies.

It is urgent that lawyers get their act together and flood the courts.

Susanna's avatar

someothercat - you should definitely follow Coffee and Covid substack. He is a lawyer in Florida and they are MAKING A DIFFERENCE. It's inspiring to read. Today he had all of us donate $12 to Ron DeSantis to let him know that we approve of his legislation yesterday (banning mandates, amongst other great things).

I HIGHLY recommend this substack:

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/-coffee-and-covid-friday-november-a8d

Martha's avatar

Susanna ~ Thanks for the recommendation! A fun/informative read.

TRM's avatar

C&C is great and so is "bad catitude". All the cool cats went to substack when they were kicked off twitter.

Malenkiy Scot's avatar

Do you mean the continental Europe or the US?

As far as the former is concerned, with the public opinion this far in the crazy territory the lawyers won't do much. And the courts will just rubber-stamp whatever the bureaucrats decree.

TRM's avatar

One fellow had a picture of himself at a table with a sign saying:

"Forced vaccination is assualt with a weapon that justifies lethal self defence"

"Change my mind"

I wonder how many stopped to chat? LOL.

Sophocles's avatar

I'd stop to agree. For the first time in my life, I'm sad we have firearm restrictions in the UK.

Alistair Penbroke's avatar

This is sadly another piece of evidence for my growing belief that there's not really such a thing as the moderate or centre left in politics. COVID isn't the first time I've seen this effect whereby apparently "normal" left-leaning people suddenly turn out to be closet authoritarian crazies. All they needed was a little push, encouragement from those around them or simply other more extremist people to start acting and they become all-in on the most shocking acts.

The problem is the left's general "society above the individual" worldview. Leftism comes in all forms but that's one of the great unifying themes throughout history. Because individuals are real, concrete things but society is a vague abstraction, this incorrect mental framework can easily lead to shocking evil, which then naturally blurs into shocking lies as the affected people struggle to rationalize to themselves why they are not, in fact, bad people but merely more caring, wiser and blessed with a longer term vision than other 'selfish' people.

Unfortunately this is difficult to fix, but I feel that in future those of us who aren't of this mindset but push back much more strongly against anything being justified by reference to "society". Almost every totalitarian evil in history has been justified by this, or the very closely related "greater good", a Roussean "general will" and so on. Because society doesn't really exist as a thing, it invariably ends up being used to mean the will of the state, and thus naturally leads to dictatorship.

Laurence Flynn's avatar

The left's "society above the individual" is at odds with the very idea of America. I'm not American but even I can understand that "a society of individuals" is a better concept of society. We are being led down the path to totalitarianism. That's where the "greater good" always leads. Totalitarianism is a societal psyche before it ever coalesces into an actual regime. Hannah Arendt wrote about this in her book 'The Origins of Totalitarianism'.

Mike Sweeten's avatar

Well said. This is true ideology at work. Left vs right, East vs West, Collectivism vs Individualism. The Cold War inside of our own country. Someone outside of the US Tweeted (not exact words I'm sure) - "In America when you look at left & right, you're only viewing the right half of the ideological spectrum. " I think he right historically, but not anymore.

Fear's avatar

This will be no dictatorship but some quasi-technocracy cabal (with the same banking scum behind the scenes of course).

Jennifer Y's avatar

"Their empathy towards people beyond their own milieu and belief system was practically zero."

This is something I've observed in the liberals around me and the media even prior to covid. It's always astounded me; now it's terrifying me.

Diana's avatar

Yes, I think of this every time I see the "Hate has no home here" yard signs in my neighborhood. We all know what they're code for.

Fear's avatar

My favorites are the BLM signs on perfectly manicured lawns of 2+ million dollar houses with whites in 'em.

Diana's avatar

Sources tell me they're considered insurance.

Fear's avatar

Not around here so much... just idiots living their vapid lives through screens and "working from home". Triple maskers.

Carol Anne's avatar

As I sit here and read this, I am in tears. I feel so helpless. What in the hell is this world coming to??!! OMG.

InvictusG's avatar

It's a feature and not a bug of the human condition. Be thankful you now know who has a soul and who does not, now you know who to spend your time and energy on.

Mel's avatar

Excellent points. The people who discount us now, were never that important to begin with. Friends who ghost people for being “unvaccinated” can go on their merry way. We will see who’s the last man/woman standing in time. All in good time.

Fear's avatar

If this hasn't made you cry at least once, you're either a sociopath or not paying attention!

Testpattern's avatar

Me too. It's like living in Europe in the 1930s and seeing the war clouds gathering. Or seeing the dystopian novels that were warnings, coming true. It's horrifying. On the micro level, it is so sad to experience the interpersonal conflict with family. I'm getting tired of holding the line. I will keep holding the line, though. I think we are still just at the beginning of this thing.

Mel's avatar

I am afraid as it’s getting worse, not one bit better. Mass vaccination in the midst of such high infectious pressure with such a highly mutable virus has been a disaster, just as Geert Vanden Bossche has said it would be. We must support each other through these terrible times.

demontage2000's avatar

UK’s impressive virus-genetics tracking data shows clearly that presence of mutations exploded in the weeks immediately following the first rollout of vaccines there, with delta eventually taking over. Prior to the vaccinations, virus was relatively stable in alpha version.

https://youtu.be/mGAkV1G5CkU/?t=32m01s

AL's avatar

This is where it gets truly frightening. It starts with one, and will slowly trickle to other countries that are easy to control, and expand from there. It will come here unless we push back as hard as we can now.

"As for the vaccine-faithful, who are in the majority and fully empowered, and who have the political and the media apparatus behind them – they made up their minds long ago and can no longer be dissuaded by argument. They’ll never leave the unvaccinated alone; they’ll pursue them everywhere, to the last corner. They have erected mental defences to shield their doctrines from every doubt. They are especially convinced that all the irrefutable scientific arguments are on their side."

This is the scariest part. The bad guys have "hearts and minds." Nothing in this world will convince them this is wrong. It's not only embedded in the most primitive parts of their brains, they have been injected, and cannot be un-injected. It's brilliant.

I feel done with the reasons why this vaccine is neither safe nor effective. I've heard it all, I understand it all, I am convinced. The subject of this substack article is where we need to be focused next. When the country's Chief Executive tells the people of an advanced society (the U.S.) to ignore a high court's ruling banning mandates, we have lawlessness, i.e. authoritarianism. It may look like we get a few wins here and there, but they are in it for the long haul. They have all the money, they have control of all communication.

So what do we do?

Abner Knight's avatar

“The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”

― Lao Tzu

AL's avatar

Yes, but I think we may also need some guns and ammo. (Just half kidding)

Fear's avatar

The USA has no chief executive. The head puppet spot is currently vacant. By design.

Testpattern's avatar

I watched a video by Dave Cullen today from Ireland (https://www.bitchute.com/video/5bHtiAVxdSBc/) called "The only way out of this". He makes the case that at this point, persuasion won't work with the vax-faithful. Facts, figures, logic cannot break the spell. He says the only way out is for these people to have personal experiences of the vaccine failure to get them to see things differently. Of course, I am sure there is a certain, maybe very small, percentage that can be reached with information. But on the whole, I think Dave may be right. Arguing just may not work. Instead, only real-world experience can change their minds.

Laurence Flynn's avatar

Unfortunately, this won't work with the truly devout Branch Covidian. Even the death of their child won't break the spell in some cases. Even their own impending death won't break them out of the trance. Their very identity is deeply interwoven in the narrative. To discard the narrative is akin to suicide. This is one of the tenets of mass psychosis, or mass formation.

AL's avatar

Yes, but I feel that between the fact that few people overall see any immediate ill effects that they can obviously connect to the vax and the fact that all of that info is blacked out by the media, they'll never see anything. The vax has already failed, but people aren't bothered a bit--willing to take more shots probably knowing that those wont work either. But they are so desperate to do SOMETHING, something that will help them sleep at night because they have been convinced that they will die (or kill someone they love with their germs) that vaccine failure is irrelevant, In other words, I'm not sure they care if it really works, they just need to do something.

Satan's Doorknob's avatar

The [mRNA] "vaccines" are a medical miracle! After years of fruitless efforts to get a mRNA therapy even approved, Moderna and BioNTech somehow hit upon the perfect solution in early 2020, just in time to bring to market the "vaccines" that would halt the pandemic in its path. Without exception, all of these products were tested on small populations, over a period of weeks, and rush approved for a declared "emergency." This declaration (EUA) had the added bonus, from a business point of view, of being a monopoly market, all the better because governments were buying boatloads of product and even starting to mandate its use. Any potential or alternative treatment was frozen out and otherwise discouraged, if not made outright illegal by regulators. This being a crisis and all, there was no need for all those stodgy old concepts like control groups, long term studies and proofs of efficacy and safety and so on. Being old fashioned, they were probably racist and white-supremacist in some way, so why would any progressive administrator do anything but show them the utmost contempt? The new products were so safe, having been developed with innovative technology, that there was not even a need to collect, much less act upon, any reports of adverse effects. Finally, an informal public-private partnership between governments and big media ensured that dissenting information would be quashed to the maximum extent possible. A new era had arrived, a true win-win for all! [Sarcasm, if it was not evident.]

Testpattern's avatar

I think the point of the video is that eventually -- and it will take time, who knows how long -- through immediate personal experience it will become undeniable to many people that the shots don't work and are dangerous. They or someone known to them will have an "adverse event" that will shake them up. Maybe I'm wrong, but with this news from Austria I sense that the clampdown on the uninjected has somehow accelerated this week. Where last week I felt like, "Well, I just have to ride out this vax hysteria for a while and deal with some hassles from being unvaxxed ... it's going to be a dark winter", now it feels like the pressure is on I could be in serious trouble soon. So, the eventual realization among many of the vax failure may not come soon enough.

Stephenie's avatar

Same. I am in a privileged position to ride things out, but things are ramping up in scary ways and there's always a breaking point. I find myself wishing for more AEs so people wake up before my life becomes truly unbearable. We are all just selfish in the end.

INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Read the list with WEF people. Don't vote for any of them.

Juris's avatar

You’re still clinging yo your delusion about “votes matter”… open your eyes!

Matt Cook's avatar

The nonvaxxed are the new Jews. We are living in the 1930s again.

Joseph Carroll's avatar

Latest data out of UK is crystal clear: the vaccinated now have higher Covid infection rates than the unvaccinated. And, as Alex Berenson pointed out yesterday, the Swedish study covering millions of people show that the vaccine leads to negative efficacy. With these things in mind, there is no other way to frame the tyranny being visited upon the people of Austria & Germany as anything other than demonic sociopaths attempting to kill you. They have attempted to hide behind lies, cons & manipulations since the entire scam was unveiled, but there is no place left for them to hide. The only way to avoid what is coming their way is to eliminate the control group. There really is only one response when sociopaths have publicly announced that their intent is to injure, maim & kill your yourself & your family. Will pray that the free people of these countries understand that their lives are on the line and do whatever it takes to defend it.

Rafael Kubelik's avatar

As I look for a rational thread to the Austrian Vaxers argument, I can find only one. It's that the booster will (temporarily) reduce severity of symptoms, thereby taking pressure off of ICUs? Have I got that right?

4RH's avatar

It doesn't though.

If you're in a hospital for an unrelated reason and you're unvaxed, the doctors will almost certainly require you to get tested for covid.

They are far less likely to require this if you're vaxed.

That's where your "vaccines reduce hospitalizations" data comes from.

Rafael Kubelik's avatar

Dear God. This gets more sinister by the minute.

Fear's avatar

Nah, it was pure Evil over a year ago.

David Watson's avatar

It reduces severity for some. Allegedly. More likely there's a bias in the statistics since healthier people are more likely to get the vax, and healthy people don't get very sick, anyway, with or without the vax. But many people get vaxed and die anyway, so it's not as protective as they would like us to believe. Reliance on averaged statistics overlooks the stark fact that most people aren't average. Above average people don't need vax. Below average people aren't helped. A few in the middle might benefit, and provides statistical evidence it works overall, while ignoring that it doesn't work for most. Liars figure.

cl's avatar

Yes, I was wondering often about the statistical bias... I can see in UK data despite all the protestations in the blurb from UKHSA lately that cases are much higher, in terms of 'apples-for-apples' rates, in vaccinated.

When it comes to hospitalisations/ deaths it SEEMS rates are worse in unvaccd, but everyone until 2 weeks post dose 2 seems to be counted as unvaccd (& those two weeks have been specifically lifted from the tables which show 2 periods post dose 1 and 14 + days post dose two.

I am now wondering, as ALL those periods are likely called "unvaccd" in 'rates' calculations, then is this going to be pushed further re dose 3... with people who were formerly "vaccd" as in 14 days plus past dose 2 being then in the unvaccd group for rates calculations, as per the rhetoric re what constitutes "vaccinated".

I must say the nudge unit have played a blinder... the plan is akin to a nuke in terms of social cohesion.

David Watson's avatar

Careers will be made analyzing the data and piecing together what actually happened, and why. Data autopsy.

cl's avatar

I imagined after a century or five, people digging up our ancient civilization's records of this and thinking "how could anyone have ever thought/ believed that.. "

but then I realised most of it would leave no trace whatsoever, being digital.

David Watson's avatar

Digital records last forever. Even if you purposely delete them.

BushidoKuma's avatar

Hi Joseph! Thank you for the thoughtful comment. I agree with you, but just for the sake of argument: "Latest data out of UK is crystal clear: the vaccinated now have higher Covid infection rates than the unvaccinated" .

This is completely true, but when I tried to make this point in a discussion, people always tried to counter it with "of course rates are higher among the vaccinated because overall majority of the population is vaccinated, therefore they will make up a higher numbers.." .

While their point does not change anything about my opinion of the "efficacy" of the vaccines (it is pretty clear by now that the vaccines do not really make any significant difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated group in terms of transmitting the virus), it is still true. When we look at the data it shows higher number of infections among vaccinated, but their overall number is higher in the population.

What would be the best way to approach the statistics in the least bias way from both sides of the argument?

I am just genuinely curious about what would be the best way to make a logical point about this statistic. Because the "opposite side" has a point as well: vaccinated numbers are higher and let's say if the data shows about 50-50 (like in some countries) in infection rates, then 50 percent comes from a bigger pool of people and the other 50 from a smaller pool..

Anyways, I am just curious how others would approach these observations.

Irena's avatar

No. Both are per 100 000. So, the *rates* of infection are higher among the vaccinated. In absolute numbers, there are many, many times more infections among the vaccinated.

BushidoKuma's avatar

Sorry I just want to make sure I understand everything well. So you mean that in both cohort, per 100 000 people the rates of infection are higher among the vaccinated?

Irena's avatar

Yes. They look at the number of infections per 100 000 in the unvaccinated, and also the number of infections per 100 000 in the vaccinated. In the UK at least, that number is higher among the vaccinated.

BushidoKuma's avatar

I understand. Thank you for the good information!

Bash's avatar

I spent a bunch of time in Austria this summer. I am truly at a loss for words as to how they can do this, and think that it will end well. It won't end with the unvaccinated, since the shots don't actually end the pandemic. So then it will be boosters, shots 3, 4, 5, 6, god knows what.

People need to understand something, and clearly - if you ask any public health official, anywhere on earth, "how does this end", they will present a set of parameters which they know are impossible to achieve - hence, "Never"

I actually don't see how this end without serious unrest and public disobedience and defiance

David Watson's avatar

Litigation is the quickest nonviolent solution. Next best is elections.

Loup des Abeilles's avatar

I no longer trust elections.

David Watson's avatar

They're better than the alternative. Always go with better. We can't have it our way.

ragnar's avatar

Ok but that's still a cope. Your way would imply that elections would solve the problem, and we can't have it that way either, because they don't. It is certainly better than to not attempt change through that mechanism. But no, there are alternatives that would be better by virtue of them working while voting doesn't.

David Watson's avatar

If you mean violence, that works for some, badly for most. If you mean coup, that never works well for anyone. What alternatives do you prefer?

Loup des Abeilles's avatar

They are not *always* better than the alternative.

David Watson's avatar

What alternative do you like better? A better education system would do it, but that's unlikely for a while, and takes a couple generations to make a difference. An honest press would make a difference. That's likely eventually, but unlikely for now. Other alternatives involve violence which is better for a few, much worse for most.

Loup des Abeilles's avatar

What I prefer depends on the circumstances. I would prefer civil war to totalitarianism. To say otherwise displays an ignorance of history. Note my response: "elections" are not *always* better than the alternative. I did not say we were there yet. But you can see it from here.

baboon's avatar

I was hoping for global military coups and Nuremberg 2. One can dream I suppose.

Abner Knight's avatar

It hasn't even started yet..

"The U.S. aims to lift Covid vaccine manufacturing to create a billion doses a year"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/us/covid-vaccines-supply.html

David Watson's avatar

Your tax dollars at work. But like most of your tax dollars, it will go to waste. Fewer people are interested. It will take sterner measures to increase uptake, which will make more people more hostile. It's not over get, but will be soon.

M. York's avatar

I wish I shared your optimism. What makes you so confident?

Fear's avatar

Elections are no longer valid and the courts proved that. There are a million ways to fight this war prior to outright violence. It is duty now to wrench the gears, to destroy their machine in any way possible. A little creativity and a pair of cable cutters can go a long way.

baboon's avatar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_bomb

I'm really drunk and have no idea what thread I'm posting in, hope this is the right one. ;)

Testpattern's avatar

"And so it begins." ... But never ends?

baboon's avatar

I can't believe it either. Vienna is the most civilzed place I have ever been to.

Loup des Abeilles's avatar

Give me instead the lack of civilization of my Ulster Scots forebears from Appalachia. It isn't enough to be civilized -- you must be ungovernable.

D Merrow's avatar

While not as pronounced, one can see the same rabid intensity from the pro-mandate, pro-corporatist mob here in the states. Perhaps I risk being hyperbolic but I fear a legitimately logical conclusion to this mass psychosis event is genocide.

Dollars4Dummies's avatar

Agreed. This hysteria is fully present in the US, especially big cities in blue states. We have slightly less Teutonic efficiency to work with, but our government leaders are just as eager to impose totalitarianism as their overseas counterparts. They're waiting for the right moment. Urban populations here have adopted the same sadistic mindset, for the most part. It defies reason.

Martha's avatar

Up to this point (in the U.S.), we are fortunate to have a fairly substantial "Red State" counterweight against the blue totalitarians...

AL's avatar

I think that is a perfectly reasonable prediction.

Mel's avatar

Maybe I need to move from Oregon…. This place has a Blue Anon Governor who just won’t stop until everyone is marching to her orders.

Ryk.'s avatar

I think multiculturalism will make things tricky in Germany and Austria. Minority groups in the Uk, NZ and the USA for example have low vaccine uptake numbers.; eg African Americans have vax rates that are impressively low ie -30%. They are described as generally mistrustful of government. If that bears out here…It would not be a good look for the German state to be seen excluding Turkish-Germans from society. Same goes for Austria. The game being played by Germany and Austria is a losing game, albeit ugly.

eugyppius's avatar

yes, i‘ve wondered about this too. no question that the lowest vaccination rates are among recent immigrants also in Germany, even some suggestive leaks reinforcing this point. problem is whether the media ever lets that come out.

Ryk.'s avatar

And that in Israel there is an opt out rate of over a million double vaccinated from the booster shot in a an eligible population of 7+ million. That would translate into at least several million double vaccinated not taking up the booster in Germany. It’s a long game. But a losing game for the state. Though i now concede that we will suffer retribution before the vaccine program goes up in smoke.

eugyppius's avatar

i agree. more and more will opt out, but there will be a lot of pain first. well, i can do it I think. i have taken the steps in my personal life that i think are necessary.

Carol Anne's avatar

Tonight I sat at dinner with members of my family, two of which were lamenting over their very negative reactions to the booster. But bragging about it. My partner gleefully itching to get his booster next week. Me: NFW! I never said a word as they clamored about Austria and the bad unvaxed causing the problems. 🤦‍♀️ Inside me, my blood was boiling- as I refuse to start another family brawl. 👿. I throw out statistics, remind them of nazi Germany and losing our rights, it falls on deaf ears. I dread to think what will happen at the thanksgiving table.

Ryk.'s avatar

I am sorry to hear that. Deaf ears. Exactly. I think Pfizer’s magic pill is the only way that vaccine advocates can be placated.

Ryk.'s avatar

Hell. I keep thinking about those steps too. But I can’t for the life of me figure out if turnips grow on trees or in the ground :) I’m

Prisoner to all the worst aspects of dependent modern life. I’m no survivalist. Still one remains hopeful.

Fear's avatar

It's not turnips so much as a like minded community/neighbors. Get out of cities if possible.

dagny awoke's avatar

As adults I can see the way forward. Even if the Internet ceased to exist I could surround myself with books and live frugally. I worry for my kids though… how do they forms bonds when the majority of the world is against them? When they build relationships with likeminded people through digital platforms it isn’t in the Wild. It feels like becoming rebels within an immense, dark forest

Mercenary's avatar

Frankly, it occured to me that Sweden did not lock down because of their huge migrant population. The already have serious problems with them, without locking down. I believe they knew that they would not have been able to control the migrants in a lockdown and that would have been very bad optics.

Testpattern's avatar

I've heard the admonition lately to resist the covid tyranny: "be ungovernable". Could it be that the immigrant groups are the ones who will be most ungovernable in this brave new world, and they represent a bloc of resistance that could help save Europe?

Mercenary's avatar

It's ironic that they may become our last hope

JonZig's avatar

Here in the US, we already have this racial dynamic in full swing. Those crossing our boarders illegally are not tested, vaccinated or masked. They are immune to any trouble with any Gov. Official anywhere in the country. It’s sickening and demoralizing the citizenry that is paying for all of it. You are correct, it’s very ugly and as a modern society, we are failing miserably.

Just_Henry's avatar

Excellent article, again! There really isn't much to say in response to what is happening in Europe, other than never underestimate the power of many small minds working together! Clearly, those that refused the vaccines outright, or on a wait-and-see basis, have been vindicated. Faked Pfizer vax trial data (BMJ), lack of effectiveness, safety, endless boosters and now the outright strong-arm tactics serve to cement their resolve against EVER getting this shot. As a result of this nonsense, all of the conspiracy theories as to what the real purpose of the shot is have to come to the forefront. Unfortunately, we will soon see what result, intended or inadvertent, of these shots are on the long-term health of the population. I do wonder about the 10+M job openings in the US...are these positions that are simply undesired or is there a lack of able-bodied people available to fill them?

Francisco d’Anconia's avatar

Exactly on the resolve to never get the shot. I will not submit under any circumstances. I am preparing manually and financially to exit society if they are successful in compelling vaccines. It seems that there is a chance that will not happen in the US but there is no bound to the ambition of the vaxxers. If possible start considering relocating to more favorable jurisdictions. Texas or Florida if you’re in the US.

Carol Anne's avatar

Florida resident here. We welcome people to our state. Just leave your socialist liberal ideas behind.

Testpattern's avatar

Why are they pushing the vaxxes so hard? Why is it getting to the point that we have to be prepared to be excluded and persecuted like this?

Juris's avatar

Do share specific details about how you’re preparing.

InvictusG's avatar

A lot of the job openings in the States are fake. They only put them out to comply with the loans they got from the gov't, they don't actually plan on filling them.

Joseph Carroll's avatar

Absolutely untrue. Within a 10 mile radius of where I sit, 95% of the businesses are advertising for employees right now and would hire willing workers in a heartbeat.

INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Here some businesses probably would. And you would be making less than 8 bucks an hour.

Just_Henry's avatar

OK. That's a more comforting alternative...fraud and graft. Thanks.

INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

And we won't know the real thing about the Pfizer shots till 2076. I will be long dead by then.

John Brown's avatar

Time to dust off all the mothballed Hitler statues and portraits and place them in and around all public places.

Chd7y's avatar

I don't think Hitler would have been in favour of injecting Germans with the products of multinational corporations.

Andreas Stullkowski's avatar

He definitively would. His ties to international corporations (e.g. Coke, IBM) are well documented. Until he started the war, he was the darling of the international elite. He would have gotten away with any genocide he liked, if he wouldn't have started the war.

Satan's Doorknob's avatar

You are partially right. History is a complex thing, however. Hitler was by no means the darling of ALL the "international elite." There is much in history that is not taught and, frankly the powers then and now would prefer not even be known or available to research, much less teach. Please don't get me wrong: I am no fan of dictators no matter their political flavor. But it was not for nothing that the Nazis were going after the communists and socialists. There is evidence that the Soviet Union planned to invade the West (of course, you will never read such in standard history books!) and this is why Hitler invaded first. You can't always find definitive answers, but a lot of possibilities crop up if one does some critical thinking about such questions as: "Who financed and supported the early Soviet Union?"

Andreas Stullkowski's avatar

But don't forget Germany made a peace packt with Stalin and then invaded Poland to start the war first with the West.

Anyway, lets not talk about WW2, this is an endless discussion.

Suffice it to say, I am just surprised that Hitler is often seen as based and opposed to global capitalism. For me he is one of the genocidical dictators of the 20th century who destroyed the Western world.

Chd7y's avatar

IBM providing technology services and Coca-Cola cosying up to Hitler so they could sell the Germans Fanta is not the same as corporations and supranational organisations dictating the medical policies of nations. In National Socialist Germany business was subordinate to the state, not vice versa.

I think we both know it wasn't "starting the war" that put Hitler on the wrong side of the international elite.

All of this is beside the point by the way. The idea that there is some kind of continuity between the Nazis (who lost the war and Europe put through a thorough process of denazification with 100 year old junior concentration camp staff hunted down to this day) and what is happening in Europe now is childish nonsense from people who can't accept that the governments imposing these measures have a direct lineage to the victors of WWII.

Corey's avatar

This is an absolutely terrifying account.

The Convincer's avatar

I'm almost sure that in the upcoming weeks many other European countries will follow this dystopian mandates implemented in Austria. This is nuts! And they won't stop.

eugyppius's avatar

it's coming for Germany, the noises are already there. we just don't have the case numbers for it quite yet. next week maybe.

Stephanie Jura's avatar

Best of luck to you, and everyone else in those countries. (And everyone in other countries; this will spread.) It feels insultingly pithy to say that, but what else can I say? Words fail when looking at the magnitude of what's going on and what's been lost in under two years.

Ryk.'s avatar

Germany post WW2 is primed to respond to the tyranny of Nazism. It does not recognise any other forms of tyranny. I thinks it’s what you call ADE.

Stephanie Jura's avatar

I think this is true for the West in general. As long as there aren't any swastikas involved, it can't be tyranny. (And even if there were, it's all justified tyranny, because covid's really really scary, okay? Jews were harmless, but the unvaccinated are ruining everything and putting us all at risk. It's different this time, honest.)

Satan's Doorknob's avatar

A very apropos observation. People think that, just because the old political parties were banned, and so forth, that the same disasters cannot happen from their present political parties. Ah, how quickly people forget the lessons of history (that which hasn't been memory-holed.) Adolf Hitler began his career in a liberal democracy.

Satan's Doorknob's avatar

Primed for totalitarianism or dictatorship maybe, but there's a critical difference. In 1930s Germany (Italy, etc.) the dominant political movement, at least that gained power, was fascism deeply based on nationalism. In contrast, the present world turmoil suggests one-world government, probably more on a communist or corporate model. Germans (and most other humans, to varying degrees) have a deep innate willingness to be led. It doesn't matter all that much by whom, or what the flag looks like, or even the tenets of the politics or faith. Civilized man is a herd animal. Sometimes to good effect, other times not so much.

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Nov 19, 2021
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Ryk.'s avatar

Ha. Then I have learnt something. Thanks. Feeling both stupid and informed all

At once :)

Ema's avatar

Hello everybody, I live in northern Italy..we 'quietly' went through vaccine mandates for hospital & medical staff since jan 2021, vaccine mandates for teachers & school staff, green pass (which means being fully vaxxed or tested every 48h) to GET TO WORK, since 15 october, and now we're boosting the elderly..enter 2022 and they'll boost everybody over 40. There are discussion to end the green pass to those (like me) that get tested every 48h (and pay 15€ per test) because they deem it NOT SAFE ENOUGH...this is madness...while the vaxxed get around even if they test positive because apparently their green pass doesn't get deactivated while they're positive...we've got 85% of the vaxxable vaxxed, and they're going after the mean unvaxxed like crazy; I sometimes lurk on Fb to read comments under the news articles, and while a couple of months ago the narrative was predominant and couln't be debated, now is beginning to show some cracks..people doesn't believe the government anymore and many don't want the booster (while other would take 10 in a row, btw..) ..and wait till they go for the kids. But we aren't allowed to protest in the city center squares anymore, and sit-in only. This is terrifying me, I've lost my sleep and I'm worried for myself and my 4 yo kid...I can't afford to leave my job, anf they'd never give me the chance to remote work.I'm.the only one in my workplace without the jab. I really hope in a plot twist to end this madness. "Mala tempora currunt..sed peiora parantur". Keep up the great work, Eugippius!

Ryk.'s avatar

I feel your despair too. I thought I was so well informed but this article was a real punch to the gut. I had no idea the strength of Bad will towards people who do not want to be vaccinated. I am hoping that I get corona soon. If I can get that six month pass then maybe I can outrun the clock. Hopefully by then booster 4 is a bust or some other treatment gets made available. So practically my wife and I are asking family to let us know when they get the infection so that we might get it too. Never thought I would want to get sick:) good luck to you.

Satan's Doorknob's avatar

Google Translate of only limited value: "Things go from bad to worse?" or perhaps more optimistically, "Bad times run [come and go], but be prepared for worse." ?

baboon's avatar

The only silver lining I see here is that this is a last-ditch bluff to terrify and coerce the remaining hesitant to get the bioweapon shots.

The only problem with that is, the only logical reason points to depopulation - we know these shots do nothing but kill, maim and make the pandemic worse - so what horrors have they got planned for us in the weeks ahead?

Stephanie Jura's avatar

I fear this isn't a bluff. They've already gone this far, have elucidated no limiting principles, and have painted themselves into a corner. Perhaps they'll find a face-saving way out of this with antivirals, or deciding to stop testing, or perhaps people will push back and stop this... but if not, I'm not sure they've any real options but to keep going.

baboon's avatar

I don't think they have painted themselves into a corner. This is global, lockstep insanity - politicians are getting their marching orders from higher powers.

Remember, at least three African presidents died "mysteriously". All anti-Covid measure. President of Haiti assassinated - said no thanks to the vaxxes. President of Madagascar survived a coup. Lukashenko was offered an IMF bribe, had a colour revolution and a coup - I am reliably informed he took the IMF money and Belarus now has anti-Covid measures.

If they wanted to back down they could just say "the virus is endemic" and move on. There is something far more sinister at work here I'm afraid.

Andreas Stullkowski's avatar

I hope you are right, but already in the summer of 2020 I thought there is no possible way to continue this charade. Yet here we are.