I'm still shaking with rage that so many selfish people refused to tie an onion to their belt during the worst of the pandemic. Show me one study that says it doesn't prevent disease, Nazis!
You’re supposed to cut open the onion and leave it on your bedside table at night. Or put them in your socks. Facebook told me so long before the pandemic even happened. SCIENCE!!!
I made a beaked mask from cardboard and duct tape, complete with onion roots hanging from the nostrils, and wore it proudly to several social functions heavily populated by the crazed Covidians. Oddly, nobody said a thing about it.
Onions be for burns, or for lurvy soup when you'n be all stuffed up. You carry a dead chicken round yer neck for keep germs off. Oh wait that's for dogs that has killed them chickens. You prevent disease by walking widdershins round the graveyard while carrying a black cat in a sack. Science has advanced so much I can't keep up.
And don't forget we went to the moon! With duct tape, reynolds wrap and software on a floppy disk. But now we don't know how to recreate that science to do it again. Science has gone so far into the future it's left the recent past behind and gone straight to the ancient past.
I've been saying since the pandemic began: Pockets full of posies saved literally billions of lives from the Black death. I've had posies in my pockets throughout and only had covid once and have not been hospitalised or died. Clearly, pockets full of posies prevent hospitalisations and save lives. Why is the government not doing something about this obvious Posie gap in our pandemic response?
Onions? I thought it was supposed to be garlic cloves! I wore mine in public dutifully, removing them only while eating. It could have been so much worse!
as a matter of fact, it might be worth a try. We used to cut up an onion and put on the bedside table when we had a clogged nose. and it helped. (onions are antiviral)
Oh, onions tied to your belt don't protect against deadly viruses, how ridiculous! We all know you should wear them to keep the alligators away. I've been wearing one for years and haven't seen one single alligator here in Brooklyn, which proves they work. I do avoid selfish and reckless people who don't wear them though, as I fear (as in abject terror) that they will attract rabid alligators.
hahaha grandma Bear, I am sure onions work in Brooklyn against alligators. I would not venture too far in Florida though, the alligators there might not know about the onion trick. Jeez this is the crown of the substack today !!!
Sadly an 85 year old woman in a nearby mobile home park was walking her dog near a pond. (A BIG NO NO DO NOT EVER DO THIS!! IN FLORIDA) when she was dragged in by a 10 ft gator. She did not survive. There is a video which shows she was sans onions at the time. I think that is proof enough. In all seriousness I can't imagine the terror she went through.
👍🤣 I'm going to be running for office (city council) this year, so I've invested in high, strong boots. Not sure how many alligators there are, but I will be venturing into an infested sewer, of that there is little doubt, lol.😨
This is simply evidence of why reading the NYT for information is a waste of time. Now, if you want to read it to understand how people in Brooklyn think then you should go for it. I would recommend staying far away from Brooklyn unless you want some good pizza. You could also read it for comedy. For the midwits, surgeons and nurses wear masks in the operating room so that they do not breathe, cough or sneeze into the open wound on your body.
and it's been known for quite awhile that masks in operating rooms are not effective either - the best they do is prevent the unlikely chance that a surgeon or nurse would sneeze or cough out huge globules of phlegm or other large particulates directly onto the patient. Silly. All of it is just silly. Nannies gotta nanny.
True! When my self-righteous RN friend can't back up her argument for masking, she resorts to "Well, then, tell your doctor when he's operating on you to remove his mask." Now I can tell her that I didn't even have to do that. I had a minor office procedure done last month and the surgeon didn't wear a mask! (His assistant was masked, but 1 out of 2 is still a win for me.)
YES--this is so obvious, why don't even the surgeons understand this...and then not very effective at preventing oral and facial bacteria from contaminating the open surgical site at that.
There are several RCTs where some ORs were masked and some were not. In no case was there any difference in outcomes/infections/whatever for either staff or patients. It is just as much a fraud in the hospital as it is on the street.
I do not think I want a nurse or surgeon hacking horrendous hairballs anywhere near me. Mask or no mask. I like to think that somewhere during medical training the difference between the patient and a spittoon would come up just in case.
I do see people still wearing masks on my commuter train in the suburbs of Philadelphia. They are definitely a minority at this point and where I travel is quite Woke in some areas.
I see people wearing masks when walking alone outside in the Bay Area. And my dentist still requires wearing a mask until they start running gear in my mouth which throws any amount of goop in the air. Personally, I'd wear a mask working there just because of the enormous amount of saliva and plaque droplets there must be floating around. Ewww.
Surgeons, surgical techs and nurses wear masks in the OR so that the various bodily liquids (blood, feces, etc.) from the patient on the operating table don’t get in their mouths and noses.
Actually, there have been several studies to this effect. I too, am too lazy to dig into my references for them. Hell, all of us already know anyway. (The folks who do not know wouldn't believe the studies anyway!)
Fortunately I am not so lazy. I think it is very useful to give people real evidence to cite, as using such evidence I have actually been able to convince not a few people to change their ideals on this.
Here is a 2021 article that "systematically review[s]randomized control trials on mask efficacy in the operating room as a means to preventing surgical site clinical infection."
Conclusion: "The results indicate no difference in surgical site infections between the operations where masks were worn versus the operations where no mask was worn."
You're preaching to the choir here. You should give me your twitter handle so I can watch the entertainment when you have conversations with them about masking. You can find some of my entertaining exchanges @jimgleeson
They also protect the surgical team from splashes of bodily fluids. (Oooops! Nicked an artery. Clamp that, will you?)
There have been studies on masking's effect on patient outcomes. They showed no effect. But why spend money on an actual study when surgeons will 1.) continue to wear masks to guard against splash; or 2.) continue to wear masks, because just like many other people surgeons are still liable to superstition.
Also, to deflect blood splashes from *their* nasal and oral passages. Eyes, too, but obviously that's glasses and not masks.
In EMT school, it was always made clear to us that the gloves, glasses -- and if desired, masks -- were for *our* protection, not the patient's. But that was 10 years ago. I guess "Duh Science" has changed since then.
I used to sometimes cause that to happen when I scanned someone's brain, but I don't do it in public anymore out of consideration for others who might get splattered.
I never heard that specific argument, initially it was out of respect for or to protect others, before they came back to saying it protected the wearer also. I think wearing a mask out of respect for those who do is only valid if you want provide equity for the ugly. I initially made that joke about a year ago, but I recently saw a study, I think from Finland, where it showed that, actually, unattractive people were more likely to wear masks.
I saw a tall slender young woman customer in the pharmacy last night wearing a mask in the checkout line. Most other customers were not. I believe that the pandemic and mask wearing has done us a favor by pinpointing those with underlying neurosis. They readily identified themselves. I don't know if it is because they really think they need protection and that masks will protect them (I doubt they're doing it for others at this point), or, as I think in a lot of cases, it has become part of their identity, like wearing makeup or perfume, as they feel naked without it.
How frustrating for you. Search, search, search. Finally a brain! Then, oops better not little Johnny might not take kindly to so many bits raining down.
I didn't scan for brains, I scanned particular brains. But I get your point and appreciate your empathy. I could only do it when I wasn't taking ephemeral, which prevented random people's thoughts from intruding on mine.
You must go to some tony ass stores. Our grocery store ran out of those "Caution Wet Floor" signs when COVID was at its peak. The lazier clerks would not even move the COVID dead out of the way before placing the signs.
(Yes, I know it's meant tongue in cheek, but dang. I find myself *often* replying to some nonsense I've seen with "I do not *want* to live in Nerf World!")
I don't know what's happened in the last 40 years to convince folks that the world *can* be completely safe, or even *should* be completely safe. But it's damned annoying.
I don't think they've convinced the people of East Palestine, Ohio that they are completely safe after the burning of 500 tons of toxic chemicals in their town.
One of the main arguments for masking was so that you or others would not sneeze or cough on people. My response, "Just how disgusting were these people who went spewing snot all over creation until they discovered masks?"
I like how some of the commenters takeaway with was "if we only wore them perfectly all the time." The "constrained" view of humanity realizes there are only some behaviors within the purview of what we can do. Wearing a mask over our mouth and nose is not one of those things, nor should it be.
"It's only a small inconvenience."
It's a small inconvenience to not to be able to smile at people?
It's a small inconvenience to not to communicat with people?
It's a small inconvenience to not connect with people?
It's a small inconvenience to not smell things?
It's a small inconvenience to show much more than communicate with our faces?
It's a small inconvenience to allow the hearing impaired to read our lips?
It sounded already like nonsense when they allowed ANY masks, for the LOOK. Like, pollen masks that only filter out big pollen particles and the description says so. But they never required face shields which would make more sense both socially and hygienically.
Masking served the purpose to cut off communication among people, in addition to social distancing and sheltering. Socially isolated people don't question the narrative on TV.
Do remember in the beginning when they came out with masks for men with facial hair? I mean you can't make this shit up.
So, I have one friend who I convinced early on that it wasn't just a minor inconvenience. Now this was after he told me a "real" man wouldn't have a problem wearing one.
Anyway, he HATES mayonnaise. So I said hey; would it be a minor inconvenience for you if I slathered mayonnaise all over your face everyday?
"Study shows people don't wear masks perfectly and thus they have little benefit."
"Ah-ha! We just have to make people wear them perfectly!"
Wow, did you not read the part about how even motivated people don't wear them perfectly? And how many, many people are not motivated to care? Every person with a mask pulled below their nose _did_ _not_ _care_ about mask wearing.
This is the constrained vs. unconstrained view. There are some things we can't do. We can't fly without an apparatus, we can't breathe underwater without a suit, and we can't wear masks perfectly for long periods of time. And we're not supposed to. The immune system is our mask.
i had a double layer polyester mask with the Humana logo on it. i kept it in my pocket with dirty kleenex and soot, probably some Bubonic plague. maybe i washed it twice the whole time
Smart kid. Where in Florida are you? If I may be so bold as to ask. Not only would the masks have to worn perfectly everywhere by everybody guidelines as to the changing and washing them would have to be agreed upon. You can't have one person using cold water rinse on a mask worn for 3 days.
If a masks has a gap anywhere along the perimeter of your face than it creates a jet propulsion effect, thereby projecting the virus further than exhaling sans masks.
Physics...but alas the scientific method was given as tribute to the vid sky gods
I noticed folks with mask often coughed into them without covering or putting their face in crook of elbow. Sneezing or coughing into a mask is far worse.
Our species is so lazy now we don't have the energy to pull a handkerchief or kleenex out of our pockets. So now we strap them to our face and just let em rip!
"Wear your mask! There are people in our community who are at risk. We must protect them!"
But those people were similarly at risk from a dozen other threats (like the seasonal flu) before the advent of COVID. What did they do to protect themselves then? Whatever they did, they should continue to do it and leave me alone. They were responsible for their own safety before, why am I now suddenly responsible for them too?
When David the "bubble-boy" needed protection, his community made sure he had what he needed to protect himself. Nobody advocated that everyone in his neighborhood should likewise live in a bubble.
Yes and? There was a study done where they assessed infections in surgeries when masking and not masking. No change. I believe the study was done at John Hopkins in the 1990s. And why wouldn't those studies be done? Wouldn't you want to know if covering your airway in a multiple hour surgery be effective? Is that science to assume and not know? No. Of course these studies have been done and have been washed and hidden. Masks do absolutely nothing but increase your probability of getting sick.
Wrong. In that study masks INCREASED the risk of infection. It just barely missed the 95% statistical threshold of significance. The best explanation for the counter-intuitive result is that the surgeons were deprived of oxygen by the mask and made more mistakes.
I think one of the drawbacks of masks is that people relax other known methods of infection control because they believe masking makes them unnecessary. Perhaps this is true of surgeons as well.
Because masking doesn't work to stop the spread of COVID, convincing people that they do encouraged people to expose themselves in public more often than if they had just been told "Socially isolate yourself as much as possible. Period."
I have to wonder how many cases of COVID could have been avoided had the ineffective masking policies not taken hold. (Not that I support lockdowns either. I'm just wondering if masking resulted in more infections because more people mistakenly felt safe in public because they thought they were protected.)
You made a statement with no supporting statements or facts. How do you prevent a virus? You don't. NO one knows how one person sleeps next to their partner who has a bad case of covid and doesn't get it. The list is endless. Doctors read books written by the people who sell the drugs and the devices. There is nothing you can do to prevent a virus but stay healthy and keep your vitamin levels high. There ia no way to avoid a virus. That is the point.
I am sorry. Those books these doctors read do they mention hand washing? What about staying away from people when you are sick or very probably incubating a virus? Is not sneezing or coughing on kith and kin and various member of the public given a mention? Unlike the talismania of masking these are behaviors that will limit the spread of a virus. Staying healthy would be the best way but even the healthiest of persons do get sick. They however have a much better chance (not getting into the whole cytokine storm bit)) of a brief illness and full recovery.
I am unable to recall which study on the pros and cons of masking that showed one of the drawbacks of requiring masks, was just as I stated above, that people then grew lax in behaviors that are proven to help fight infections such as hand washing. There is also the fact that masks can very quickly get disgusting. That's a technical term.
The truth is Paula there is no way to avoid it. My wife had covid and omicron. I slept in the same bed both times and waited on her hand and foot. Got nothing and have no antibodies. Flew on a small plane next my freind who was coughing up a storm. I got nothing. Sure maybe it helps to stay away and mayve it doesn't. One sick kid was recently brought around 5 others. All slept in same room together. The one kid sleeping the furthest away did catch her sickness. The other 4 did not. Washing hands? Naw. Germs are good for your body, I don't buy any of it. It's mostly all BS so someone can make a buck. And vaccines never stopped a thing. Check out the book Disolving Illustions.
NYT is far too tiresome to slog through. The paywall, in which they self identify as ‘independent journalists’ is a small, yet humorous, deterrent to reading it, in comparison to the ‘hyper-cleansed’ narratives it presents for public consumption. If they bother to fact check something as false, there’s a better than good chance that it’s true.
I have come to learn verifying what's right and fair is easy. Anything politicans and the media repeat more than a couple times is total BS and the opposite is actually true.
And to expand on that a bit, so they don't cough droplets on an open wound, not to block aerosols. And we knew COVID spread via aerosols, something masks are terrible at blocking, by about May '20.
Could we be honest? COVID was scary, people desperately wanted some way to feel protected and/or to feel they were helping, masks provided that belief.
But Covid wasn't scary. The reporting of Covid was scary. But I guarantee you, if we gathered and did stories about any disease, there are bad outcomes.
Yes. I can also hear this being delivered in Rod Serlings voice.
I get the oddest arguments when I am dealing with some of these people who are pro vaccine.
I threw up a couple graphs based on the ONS data and they are saying "well this doesn't tell us who was vaccinated." And my thought is "This vaccine was said to be 90% effective. At the very least we should be continually seeing lower numbers among the vaccinated PERIOD according to the assanine assertions made by the CDC and the WHO and whoever else spouted the "safe and effective" crap.
Also I know the ONS data is horribly incomplete. EL Gato Malo did a great job of at least explaining it, and linked articles to show more of it. I also think his point is spot on, the state should not be responsible for the data collection just as they shouldn't be responsible for investigating themselves on their integrity level in creating constitutional policy.
You apparently place yourself below the midwits, then? Turns out there's not much evidence that masks in surgery have any benefits (based on measure of post-op infections.)
That if you believe that masks work. Why are you so obsessed about me not wearing one. Why, for the first time in YOUR life are you all of a sudden concerned about me inhaling a virus. And if you are so concerned about public health, where are you on vaping, smoking, drinking, and dozens of other public health issues that cause tens of thousands of deaths every year. You're not protesting in front of any bars are you. The fact is we all know they couldn't care less about my health. They're just upset that I'm not in the fraternal order of maskers. Many of us know where this group think ultimately takes a society. Which is why I am against all "hate" crime laws and "domestic terrorist" laws....because we all know, that one day, we will be considered terrorists for not "going along" with the group think policy of the day.
They're simply concerned that you might burden the system when you get sick, which could interfere THEIR ability to get treatment. So it's ultimately a selfish motive, on their part. These are, after all the same folks who said that unvaxxed/unmasked folks shouldn't get treatment - apparently only vaxxed folks who got sick DESPITE a) vaccination (transfection) and b) masking up the wazoo were worthy.
I'm okay with the "don't burden the system" narrative. But I would like to invite that person to go spend a day with me sitting in the Emergency Room at Ben Taub Hospital here in Houston and let's see what's really "burdening" our system. You'll never see a CNN or MSNBC reporter doing THAT. It would destroy their narrative.
no unvaccinated people i knew burdened the system. they stayed as far away from the hospital as possible. they paid out of pocket for their own IVM and got better overnight, some using the horse paste version. my BF and i got covid this past june. for me it was a mild flu lasting 2 days. for him it was 3 days. we did not use a hospital or even a doctor.
meanwhile, i get to read my morbidly obese "friend" in NYC who takes cabs a few blocks to work because he's too fat to walk and is on various medications (he has relapsed from bariatric surgery and gained back every ounce plus) calling for all unvaccinated people to "hurry up and die already" lest they swamp the system. i wonder if he would have said that to my face. i'll never know because i never intend to speak to him again.
I am overweight and unvaccinated. I ended up in the hospital due to my diabetes and had my leg amputated. I will tell you those of us who are overweight know were Covid ranks in terms of the danger to them. When I was given the sales pitch for the vaccine from my doctor, I asked her if it would not be better that I take better care of my obesity and diabetes than to get vaccinated for something that I already had, that was experimental, that didn't stop the spread or infection, etc.
I'm not okay with the "burdening the system" narrative. The problem is staffing and nurse burnout, and it's due to the state taking over healthcare that is causing it. We should be working to create a better healthcare system, not hastening it's demise.
i took my late father to the VA ER one saturday early evening in november of 2019 (before covid). they wanted to put him in an ICU bed but there were no rooms in the inn. the ICU was SWAMPED, probably with selfish cancer patients keeping a WW2 vet from getting the care he needed.
the VA called two nearby large hospitals, one a world renowned teaching hospital and they were both full up. at 3:00am, the teaching hospital called to say an ICU room had opened up and we were loaded into an ambulance for the 2 block ride.
funny, there were no stories on the front page the next morning about the dire shortage of ICU beds in 3 major hospitals. Rachel Madcow didn't do any features on the situation. ICUs are always full.
hospitals are businesses. full ICUs is good business. too many beds and not enough patients to fill them means MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN. Check out the hospital bed rates per 100,000 populations of the various countries around the world.
absolutely. my point was that ICU beds are always full but during covid, the media was always panicking that they were full because of covid, then because of unvaccinated covid, now i guess of breakthrough vaccinated covid. it's always something
exactly...I'm sure there are vacancies in ICU's occasionally, but the whole philosophy behind intensive "care" is that if you can provide...do it, so they are always occupied. Sure, the darker side may be that they are billing an insurance company a fortune for care that isn't mandatory. But that's another issue that's even more difficult to resolve.
It’s safest in the middle of the herd. And sometimes the herd is in fact going in the right direction. If not, at least you have company while you plunge over the cliff.
and why was there no outcry against mask pollution? where did all those non-biodegradable masks and plastic antigen tests end up? in the land fill? in the waterways?
Exactly....but they went ballistic when they found out that 100,000,000 cigarette butts got washed into bays of LA during a hard rain. But 50,000,000,000,000 masks no one seems to care about.
Feb 22, 2023·edited Feb 22, 2023Liked by eugyppius
The reason we have an idiocracy is due to the reality that formal education for the past 40 years or so has produced a mass of idiots. Thankfully, the biggest idiots appear to be intent on self-immolation with endless rounds of experimental death jabs. Here in the Southern US, we just ignore the idiots, while welcoming all of the intelligent folks abandoning the parasitic hellholes like NYC.
so does my Dr's office, however the front office workers aren't wearing them in the front office, and my Dr ends up with his below his nose. I have a mask that I wear there called an 'unmask'. Basically it's a covering with 2 layers, one has holes in it so you can breath, and the other is very thin and covers the one with holes so you can't see them.
I'm looking for a new doctor. The last time that I went, she had 3 masks on. My mask kept sliding down my face and she repeatedly told me to pull it up over my nose, I eye rolled so much, I am surprised that I didn't have a seizure.
look for functional or integrative doctors. they don't take insurance so you'll have to pay out of pocket. however, they charge fairly for their services and do not inflate their prices to capitalize on the graft of insurance. also, they can treat you with what is best for you, not according to protocols set by insurance companies and they won't have to code you if you are unvaccinated. they will focus on keeping you healthy with nutrition, not with drugs
Cleveland Clinic here does as well. But medical facilities are often the verrry last to pay attention to evidence that their protocols are at best useless. Which is why that crap about nothing by mouth (even water) after midnight prior to surgery even if that surgery is at 3PM the next day is still the rule in many hospitals. They just don't care what the evidence shows. They care about the convenience of staff.
I think a lot of it is pure optics and the doctors don't want a hysterical maskoid patient complaining somewhere. I recently had a sudden torn retina. My ophthamologist met me at the office at 8:00 p.m. on a Saturday night to check what was happening. No mask on me, no mask on him. Next day I went to a retina specialist for a laser treatment to repair the tear. It was a Sunday at 11:00 a.m. No mask on me, no mask on the doctor. When I went back in a few days to get a first check on the laser treatment, it was regular office hours, all patients were masked, I had to put one on theoretically, but I ignored the sign and didn't wear a mask and no one said anything. The doctor came in to check my eyes and his mask was down under his chin. Probably with other masked patients he pulled the mask up.
Someone should write the NYT's asking them if CHILDREN should be told the truth and if masking them for TWO FUCKING YEARS was a hideous mistake made by cowardly adults.
Ask them if they're proud of promoting child abuse.
I would, but I canceled my NYT subscription 3 years ago.
I may just steal “the Faucian faithful”! Makes a nice alliterative counterpart to the Covidian cult.
Very clever of you to delve into the comments, which are headsmackingly obtuse, just as I would expect from Stockholm syndrome captives clinging to their captors’ catechisms.
Regarding the NYT story itself, I’ll cheat and share a comment I posted elsewhere as I’m well past my bedtime and too bleary-eyed to compose something original:
They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and are now pretending they’re just putting a stolen cookie back.
I notice they’re still perpetuating the use of name-calling (“conspiracy theorists” and “quack-cure peddlers”) and will pull those tricks out of their bag to lob at anyone who questions the next narrative.
The only way to defend against this tactic is to let the bullets pass through you. That’s when you realize they were just imaginary, and they’ll never work to silence you again:
My hypothesis is simply that masking made them feel good. They were “doing something!” It felt so wonderful to be part of fighting the plague. They could look around and see everyone else doing it. Therefore there was no possibility they could be wrong. Everyone agreed! It warmed their hearts. We’re all in this together! We’re all good people doing the right thing! Powerfully intoxicating and therefore addictive. Those who masked out of genuine fear really really wanted to belief the magic talisman would ward off the evil illness.
Yep. Exactly. They probably all have the "current thing" plastered in their profile picture on all of their social media apps. And posting the rainbow circle, a Ukraine flag and wearing a mask all helped the exact same amount. Zilch.
" “Health Canada has conducted a preliminary risk assessment which identified a potential for early pulmonary toxicity associated with the inhalation of nanoform graphene. To date, Health Canada has not received data to support the safety and efficacy of face masks containing nanoform graphene.
“As such, and in the absence of manufacturer’s evidence to support the safe and effective use of nanoform graphene coated masks, Health Canada considers the risk of these medical devices to be unacceptable.”"
My brain is forever re-wired. I read it and my first, and perhaps only, reaction is why now? What is the message behind the message? Are they preparing us for a regime change and pandering/patronizing us to ease us into it? Are they done with pandemics for now and are shifting to chemical warfare (i.e. a different kind of chemical warfare)?
If the NYT is publishing this, gratuitously I might add, something else is afoot.
LOL, I just had that argument with my mgr. who told me to vax or go 18 months ago.
I printed out several Fauci bytes re; 'immunization' etc....he started dissembling then said the term 'immunization' was indeed problematic, I asked him is that why they changed the definition, he didnt know they had done that...hes an ignoramus and berserk in defense=progressive foot soldier .
I think you are right. There’s a lot of repositioning going on in various places as the truth emerges with people wanting to play the ‘sinner who repenteth’ card in mitigation when the Court trials start.
Seeing any of this madness ever make it into the courts is wishful thinking - at least, in Canada it is. The courts are corrupt to the core. Just had a case go through the Ontario court of appeal where a father didn't want the kid to get the jab but the mother did. Court ruled for the mother.
The Freedom Convoy enquiry? The judge in that is a Liberal party apologist. Outcome was that Trudeau was justified in invoking the Emergencies Act - so he was justified in freezing bank accounts of supporters of the Convoy. Dangerous precedent has now been set, in that any protest that the Government doesn't like can be instantly squashed by police and freezing funds.
The whole mask thing is (IMO) a massive diversion to focus attention away from the ongoing power grab by the WHO crew who want future pandemics to be run by them and are changing the International Health Regulations (IHR) to do exactly that.
The opinion piece is written by Bret Stephens. He is one of the NYT’s “conservative” commentators whose job it is to write rage click bait for the Time’s “liberal” readers. The intent is to actually make the average NYT reader even more sure of how awesome masks are.
It would be ingenious for the NYT to bait its commenters with this article just to crowdsource the most popular retort. Apparently the winners are "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" and "real masking has never been tried."
NYT and CNN claim to be making an effort to move back to the center because they see their readership numbers plummeting and their reputations destroyed (at least in the minds of non Wokesters). However, I tend to believe it is only lip service. Any serious effort to reflect a non Woke viewpoint still creates huge shockwaves within their organizations (.e.g., the anti-Trans article several days ago), showing that they are still deeply controlled by the extreme Left.
LOL, no way. Not only controlled by the extreme left, I would argue that they are a direct arm of the deep state. No unapproved article or agenda sneaks through. I think it's a lot more controlled than we imagine. It was not this way 30 years ago, but it is now.
Leftism itself has been coopted by neoliberals to push the same things Republicans used to shill, eg beliefs like ‘profit motive healthcare, insurance and public transport ensure the best, most efficient service’ and ‘war is always a patriotic and societal good that liberates the populace of both sides, when waged by the US’, but now, with a delicious woke candy coating.
So then, just for self-interest. Very possible. Despite their garbage news, they are still the leader. I guess they can only play the line so much before they head done the chute like CNN did.
We have been turned into a people who had a minimum trust in our government and major trust in our doctors; now not so much. We view with suspicion any action by the former, even if it could be, for once, benign and wonder if doctors' other recommendations are well-informed.
Maybe we have just been forced to be truly mature.
What the Cochrane says is that we have no evidence masks work in the real world. Elsewhere, they might be effective. Even if masks did work, a recommendation to use them would not follow until we could assess the benefit of masks vs. the harm from masks.
To the NYT commenters, the effectiveness of masks is so obvious as to be beyond evaluation.
we have no evidence that masks do anything anywhere, basically. there's also no evidence they work in healthcare contexts. the bad/insufficient studies line doesn't really save the situation, because this is very often what the literature looks like when a theory/intervention/whatever doesn't work. publication is biased heavily towards positive results.
Full-time, long-time member of team reality here, but I have a serious question. What about vs. bacteria? I was under the impression that masks in a healthcare situation (surgeries, hospitals generally) still made sense because they worked against bacteria which are orders of magnitude larger than viruses? Is that incorrect?
in practice, masks just don't do anything. not even surgical masks against bacteria. maybe they shield hospital personnel from blood spatter or bodily fluids of patients.
all studies should be re-registered. it should be a prerequisite of publication; all respectable journals should refuse to accept any paper on an study findings that wasn't pre-registered.
then we could go around, and look at all the pre-registered studies that never resulted in publication, and draw important conclusions about all the interventions for which there is no evidence.
the thing is, I only read with comments with 50 reader recommendations or higher, so nobody could accuse me of cherry picking the craziest people. couldn't find a single one of them agreeing with stephens.
Surgeons and nurses wear masks in operating rooms because the masks were designed to stop BACTERIA. Bacteria are huuuge compared to viruses. And in an operating room, with someone’s body lying there open, what does the patient need protection from. Bacteria. That surgeon who said “I think they work really great” when he was talking about masks stopping corona doesn’t even know what they actually do.
There's some question if that's of any benefit to patients. No environment is completely sterile, and healthy patients' immune systems can deal with quite a bit of infectious material without much help.
arguably the only benefit is in shielding medical personnel blood spatter and the like. limited studies available on patient outcomes from masked vs. unmasked surgical personnel really show no difference in outcome. now, those studies are probably underpowered, etc., but still, there seems not to be a huge effect.
the whole question of how masking even arose, given that nobody can find it works but everyone finds it at some level comforting or convincing of hygiene, is very interesting.
still, if i was wheeled into a room & the last thing i saw as the anesthesia was lowered was an unmasked surgeon with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, i would probably think he was cool & knew what he was doing
I am currently tracking this for a New Zealand based piece I am working on and can pretty clearly show (it’s been said before in other countries!) that it was a group of shrill influenza experts who seized the narrative and admit to lobbying government to implement masks. The hilarious thing is they publicly did posts with references….that if you read them are too frequently poor quality sure, but also the study comes to the opposite conclusion on masks if you actually read it. We also had a u turn on masks here and another govt doc shows it could be used ‘so people remember risk’. Will share if you are interested…
I totally agree. I just remember researching masks at the beginning of the pandemic because I was so horrified by them being a requirement to function in real life and I remember seeing there was reason to believe the masks did do something to stop bacteria, even if it was just a little bit, but that masks did zero to stop viruses. So many people get infections from hospitals and we live in such a litigious culture that I can see why they are standard operating procedure for surgeries, but researchers have known for decades that masks do nothing to stop viruses. Hospitals and deceived doctors can be forgiven for the former, but not the latter.
They'll be masking in their pods as well. By that point they won't even need to take the mask off because they'll have an IV hooked up to their arm full of 'ze bugz' in liquid form. Then admonish anyone that doesn't want to live like them.
Sounds wild, but with VR and transhumanism coming full steam ahead, in 30 years this could be closer to reality than we think...
Thanks for this: evidence of why I no longer read the NYTimes which BTW is not just a reflection of what goes on in Brooklyn but also in California and other progressive enclaves. We are no better off on data, translating that data and implementing that data on all the dumb things we did and mandated over the past 3 years. It’s really quite appalling and sad. These same debates took place during the 1918 pandemic. We have not evolved.
I'm still shaking with rage that so many selfish people refused to tie an onion to their belt during the worst of the pandemic. Show me one study that says it doesn't prevent disease, Nazis!
When I refused to wear a mask, I used to announce that I also wouldn’t avoid the cracks on the pavement.
I so hope your mother's back is ok!
😆 ha! Good one!
Do you also run through the house with scissors?
I would moo when the socially distanced line would moove forward.
Baaah Baaaah
You’re supposed to cut open the onion and leave it on your bedside table at night. Or put them in your socks. Facebook told me so long before the pandemic even happened. SCIENCE!!!
This is wonderful science to explain why you won't wear a mask. "Don't worry, I have an onion in my sock".
yes ! i am sorry I did not read through the comments first. This is REAL science because it helps. proven and tried.
If only your mask beak were longer
I made a beaked mask from cardboard and duct tape, complete with onion roots hanging from the nostrils, and wore it proudly to several social functions heavily populated by the crazed Covidians. Oddly, nobody said a thing about it.
They were envious of your dapper accessories
Beau Brummel lives!
They probably thought it was a prototype of the next mandate.
Genius.
So I keep telling myself.
Pics or GTFO 🤣🤣🤣
Oh geez 😳
😂🤣😂🤣
I wore a plague doctor mask to some protests. It totally works, trust me.
Well I heard it wards off the MIASMA from the dark ages!...;)
Lol!
Onions be for burns, or for lurvy soup when you'n be all stuffed up. You carry a dead chicken round yer neck for keep germs off. Oh wait that's for dogs that has killed them chickens. You prevent disease by walking widdershins round the graveyard while carrying a black cat in a sack. Science has advanced so much I can't keep up.
And don't forget we went to the moon! With duct tape, reynolds wrap and software on a floppy disk. But now we don't know how to recreate that science to do it again. Science has gone so far into the future it's left the recent past behind and gone straight to the ancient past.
It was the fashion at the time, after all
I've been saying since the pandemic began: Pockets full of posies saved literally billions of lives from the Black death. I've had posies in my pockets throughout and only had covid once and have not been hospitalised or died. Clearly, pockets full of posies prevent hospitalisations and save lives. Why is the government not doing something about this obvious Posie gap in our pandemic response?
You know what's next: "ring around the uranium".
Thanks to the US congress critters.
Seriously, ya'all: you are not a horse, you are not a cow. Leave the posies alone.
That's because onions don't work (only for horses). Stick a turnip down your trousers like every sane, unselfish person would do!
Hey, is that a turnip in your pants or you just happy to see me?
Youn can get a lorvy turnip at Baldrick's shop. The best ones really impress the wimmin folk.
Though Mrs Miggin says that "he's made that hoses will last all morning".
It would have worked better without the spelling errors that I now cannot correct.....
HORSES....
WILLY.
FFS
Ha!
Would this be a recommended protocol for women?
And/or trans?
Asking for a friend (no, really!)
Wimmin is a mythical beast.
Why don't other people put bananas in their ears to stop the alligators from coming to Sesame Street?
Because that only works for crocodiles.
Onions? I thought it was supposed to be garlic cloves! I wore mine in public dutifully, removing them only while eating. It could have been so much worse!
You're tribute has me all choked up Martyn!...:)
Garlic is for vampires
Yup. And even a vampire wouldn't take a vaxxed blood transfusion
I never thought about them...... They'll be starving and the jabless will have to be more careful.
Finally an excuse to buy silver and keep huge bunches of roses about the house.
Are they the ones who do cricket?
Look, I did tie an onion to my belt and only twice was I attacked by vampires, so don’t dismiss #Science.
Those were IRS agents.
How do you tell them apart?
The vampires once had a mortal soul. So they will shy from crosses.
Lmao
Good one Paula!😆
Thanks y'all! This thread gave me so many laughs I needed this morning.
Onion? So 7th century. It's been shown garlic works best.
In the literature, I notice that even among onioners there's disagreement as they're divided along the yellows, whites and reds.
We need more RCT studies. It's just common sense garlic would be most effective.
you forgot to mention Vidilia. We are all in here on Vidalia Onions in the land of the walking dead.
I honestly believe someone was going to chime in with Vidalia.
The Varsity Onion ring is the holy grail of onion rings...made with Vidalia Onions.
as a matter of fact, it might be worth a try. We used to cut up an onion and put on the bedside table when we had a clogged nose. and it helped. (onions are antiviral)
Oh, onions tied to your belt don't protect against deadly viruses, how ridiculous! We all know you should wear them to keep the alligators away. I've been wearing one for years and haven't seen one single alligator here in Brooklyn, which proves they work. I do avoid selfish and reckless people who don't wear them though, as I fear (as in abject terror) that they will attract rabid alligators.
hahaha grandma Bear, I am sure onions work in Brooklyn against alligators. I would not venture too far in Florida though, the alligators there might not know about the onion trick. Jeez this is the crown of the substack today !!!
Sadly an 85 year old woman in a nearby mobile home park was walking her dog near a pond. (A BIG NO NO DO NOT EVER DO THIS!! IN FLORIDA) when she was dragged in by a 10 ft gator. She did not survive. There is a video which shows she was sans onions at the time. I think that is proof enough. In all seriousness I can't imagine the terror she went through.
Oh, wow! What a terrifying way to go! And, yes, I suspect onions work better here in NYC than in places like Florida.😉
The real test is to brave the NYC alligator infested sewer.
👍🤣 I'm going to be running for office (city council) this year, so I've invested in high, strong boots. Not sure how many alligators there are, but I will be venturing into an infested sewer, of that there is little doubt, lol.😨
High boots are required wearing for politics. You might also need a pair of pointy toed roach stompers for some city ventures. Best of luck to you.
I only wear a mask when I don't want to smell the onion.
i hung garlic on my door
Free range, organic, heirloom onion? Or generic yellow from StuffMart?
This is simply evidence of why reading the NYT for information is a waste of time. Now, if you want to read it to understand how people in Brooklyn think then you should go for it. I would recommend staying far away from Brooklyn unless you want some good pizza. You could also read it for comedy. For the midwits, surgeons and nurses wear masks in the operating room so that they do not breathe, cough or sneeze into the open wound on your body.
and it's been known for quite awhile that masks in operating rooms are not effective either - the best they do is prevent the unlikely chance that a surgeon or nurse would sneeze or cough out huge globules of phlegm or other large particulates directly onto the patient. Silly. All of it is just silly. Nannies gotta nanny.
True! When my self-righteous RN friend can't back up her argument for masking, she resorts to "Well, then, tell your doctor when he's operating on you to remove his mask." Now I can tell her that I didn't even have to do that. I had a minor office procedure done last month and the surgeon didn't wear a mask! (His assistant was masked, but 1 out of 2 is still a win for me.)
It's terrifying that an RN doesn't understand the difference between virii and bacteria. Or why the masks are worn. They are not talismanic!
Actually, Mek, masks are talismanic. That is EXACTLY why they are worn and worshipped, don't you know!?!?
SatanCon 2023 requires the talismanic face diapers, the bioweapon clot shot and drag queens. Cuz science!
https://valiantnews.com/2023/02/largest-satanic-gathering-in-history-mandates-jabs-masks-and-includes-drag-show/
Satan is horrified and won't be attending.
I truly don't understand this. Isn't the rejection of societal conventions one of the purposes of Satanism?
Virii… That’ll be the name of my next band!
"Virii and Villi." You could be the next Milli Vanilli.
Masks are worn during surgical procedures to protect the surgical site from bacterial contamination. Nothing to do with stopping viruses.
YES--this is so obvious, why don't even the surgeons understand this...and then not very effective at preventing oral and facial bacteria from contaminating the open surgical site at that.
A healthy patient's immune system is capable of dealing with almost any airborne bacterial invasion.
My surgeon and his team all wore masks,cause they were drueling over their paychecks. 🤤
There are studies, including a large (N=3000) one in orthopedic surgery and the Unmasked docs had *fewer* post-op infections.
They are merely fluid catchers, to protect the vulnerable incision, and keep bits of the patient off the lunch menu. Nothing more.
There are several RCTs where some ORs were masked and some were not. In no case was there any difference in outcomes/infections/whatever for either staff or patients. It is just as much a fraud in the hospital as it is on the street.
And they completely forgot all their physics lessons...like "jet propulsion" effects
Yes. I often wondered if doctors put 2 and 2 together when they scrubbed in after fiddling with their theatre masks between shifts?
How could they be so oblivious/obtuse?
I do not think I want a nurse or surgeon hacking horrendous hairballs anywhere near me. Mask or no mask. I like to think that somewhere during medical training the difference between the patient and a spittoon would come up just in case.
Your being tended to by cats dessed as nurses?
Well some did have claws and some were rather haughty....
I do see people still wearing masks on my commuter train in the suburbs of Philadelphia. They are definitely a minority at this point and where I travel is quite Woke in some areas.
I see people wearing masks when walking alone outside in the Bay Area. And my dentist still requires wearing a mask until they start running gear in my mouth which throws any amount of goop in the air. Personally, I'd wear a mask working there just because of the enormous amount of saliva and plaque droplets there must be floating around. Ewww.
Surgeons, surgical techs and nurses wear masks in the OR so that the various bodily liquids (blood, feces, etc.) from the patient on the operating table don’t get in their mouths and noses.
There was a study to this effect that I’m too lazy to look up
I think you're probably referring to this study which showed no benefit from surgical masks in reducing postoperative wound infections:
Tunevall TG. Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study. World J Surg. 1991 May-Jun;15(3):383-7; discussion 387-8. doi: 10.1007/BF01658736. PMID: 1853618.
Actually, there have been several studies to this effect. I too, am too lazy to dig into my references for them. Hell, all of us already know anyway. (The folks who do not know wouldn't believe the studies anyway!)
Fortunately I am not so lazy. I think it is very useful to give people real evidence to cite, as using such evidence I have actually been able to convince not a few people to change their ideals on this.
Here is a 2021 article that "systematically review[s]randomized control trials on mask efficacy in the operating room as a means to preventing surgical site clinical infection."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590170221000248
Conclusion: "The results indicate no difference in surgical site infections between the operations where masks were worn versus the operations where no mask was worn."
Thanks! SSI results seem to consistently find the same thing. The one about which I was thinking was earlier than this one, though.
You're preaching to the choir here. You should give me your twitter handle so I can watch the entertainment when you have conversations with them about masking. You can find some of my entertaining exchanges @jimgleeson
I long ago stopped getting into with maskholes. That said, my twitter handle is @wiltster where you may follow me at your own risk.
Those words could have been taken straight from Tony Fauci’s lips the past three years… or decades.
Yes. See the Neil Orr study from 1981.
But, psychological priming taught people they work in operating rooms, years ago. We're teaching people to unlearn a lifetime belief.
http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/mash-season-6-16-patent-4077-surgery-surgical-clamp-margaret-hot-lips-hawkeye-pierce-alan-alda-loretta-swit-review-episode-guide-list.jpg
They also protect the surgical team from splashes of bodily fluids. (Oooops! Nicked an artery. Clamp that, will you?)
There have been studies on masking's effect on patient outcomes. They showed no effect. But why spend money on an actual study when surgeons will 1.) continue to wear masks to guard against splash; or 2.) continue to wear masks, because just like many other people surgeons are still liable to superstition.
Also, to deflect blood splashes from *their* nasal and oral passages. Eyes, too, but obviously that's glasses and not masks.
In EMT school, it was always made clear to us that the gloves, glasses -- and if desired, masks -- were for *our* protection, not the patient's. But that was 10 years ago. I guess "Duh Science" has changed since then.
Yeah, but folks in the grocery store without masks could spontaneously combust spewing fascia and blood all over you.
You can never be too safe Mek!....:)
I used to sometimes cause that to happen when I scanned someone's brain, but I don't do it in public anymore out of consideration for others who might get splattered.
LOL.
Remember when the mask farce started to unravel and the new argument became that we should wear one out of respect for those who do?
My pointless gesture protects you; your irrational fear protects me; and our fascist mandates protect grandma!
I never heard that specific argument, initially it was out of respect for or to protect others, before they came back to saying it protected the wearer also. I think wearing a mask out of respect for those who do is only valid if you want provide equity for the ugly. I initially made that joke about a year ago, but I recently saw a study, I think from Finland, where it showed that, actually, unattractive people were more likely to wear masks.
Yeah it was GAME OVER when they came up with the most diabolical phrase ever:
"My mask protects you"
Let the social tyranny Hunger Games begin. No "tribute" was enough sacrifice at that point.
That's sad, as I can tell you, I prefer an ugly face to a blank mask.
Ryan Gardner: I sure do remember that.
Respect? Fu-k them maskholes!
My favorite conversation:
Me: Masks don't work. Why are you wearing one?
Mask-wearer: I wear a mask because I have a medical condition that puts me at special risk to COVID.
Me: Your medical condition makes the mask work?
I saw a tall slender young woman customer in the pharmacy last night wearing a mask in the checkout line. Most other customers were not. I believe that the pandemic and mask wearing has done us a favor by pinpointing those with underlying neurosis. They readily identified themselves. I don't know if it is because they really think they need protection and that masks will protect them (I doubt they're doing it for others at this point), or, as I think in a lot of cases, it has become part of their identity, like wearing makeup or perfume, as they feel naked without it.
Genius
How frustrating for you. Search, search, search. Finally a brain! Then, oops better not little Johnny might not take kindly to so many bits raining down.
I didn't scan for brains, I scanned particular brains. But I get your point and appreciate your empathy. I could only do it when I wasn't taking ephemeral, which prevented random people's thoughts from intruding on mine.
That is a relief. I like knowing a brain mask will not be needed while I go about my day.
I can safely say that I have been going to the grocery store for over four decades and no one has spewed any bodily fluids onto me.
You must go to some tony ass stores. Our grocery store ran out of those "Caution Wet Floor" signs when COVID was at its peak. The lazier clerks would not even move the COVID dead out of the way before placing the signs.
> You can never be too safe Mek!
This is absolutely *not* true. ;)
(Yes, I know it's meant tongue in cheek, but dang. I find myself *often* replying to some nonsense I've seen with "I do not *want* to live in Nerf World!")
I don't know what's happened in the last 40 years to convince folks that the world *can* be completely safe, or even *should* be completely safe. But it's damned annoying.
Safetyism is big business.
We get what we ask for.
Look no further than the TSA
Don't 'zactly recall askin' for any of this shit.
You and I both. Probably one of the reasons why you and i saw through the civid bullshit
I don't think they've convinced the people of East Palestine, Ohio that they are completely safe after the burning of 500 tons of toxic chemicals in their town.
One of the main arguments for masking was so that you or others would not sneeze or cough on people. My response, "Just how disgusting were these people who went spewing snot all over creation until they discovered masks?"
EXACTLY!
My boy, who was 9 at the time said:
"Dad, even if they do work, wouldn't everyone have to wear them perfectly everywhere and at all times in order for them to work at all?
Yet the obvious was apostasy to adults.
He was kicked out of school for not wearing his mask "right" after 3 days when the masks mandates began.
2 weeks later we moved to Florida
I like how some of the commenters takeaway with was "if we only wore them perfectly all the time." The "constrained" view of humanity realizes there are only some behaviors within the purview of what we can do. Wearing a mask over our mouth and nose is not one of those things, nor should it be.
"It's only a small inconvenience."
It's a small inconvenience to not to be able to smile at people?
It's a small inconvenience to not to communicat with people?
It's a small inconvenience to not connect with people?
It's a small inconvenience to not smell things?
It's a small inconvenience to show much more than communicate with our faces?
It's a small inconvenience to allow the hearing impaired to read our lips?
I like to breathe. I know it's weird and very anti-science.
if only we had tried communism better, it would have been perfect!
It sounded already like nonsense when they allowed ANY masks, for the LOOK. Like, pollen masks that only filter out big pollen particles and the description says so. But they never required face shields which would make more sense both socially and hygienically.
Masking served the purpose to cut off communication among people, in addition to social distancing and sheltering. Socially isolated people don't question the narrative on TV.
Do remember in the beginning when they came out with masks for men with facial hair? I mean you can't make this shit up.
So, I have one friend who I convinced early on that it wasn't just a minor inconvenience. Now this was after he told me a "real" man wouldn't have a problem wearing one.
Anyway, he HATES mayonnaise. So I said hey; would it be a minor inconvenience for you if I slathered mayonnaise all over your face everyday?
Add to that list the damage done to children who were required to wear them.
And I can't get over the reaction:
"Study shows people don't wear masks perfectly and thus they have little benefit."
"Ah-ha! We just have to make people wear them perfectly!"
Wow, did you not read the part about how even motivated people don't wear them perfectly? And how many, many people are not motivated to care? Every person with a mask pulled below their nose _did_ _not_ _care_ about mask wearing.
This is the constrained vs. unconstrained view. There are some things we can't do. We can't fly without an apparatus, we can't breathe underwater without a suit, and we can't wear masks perfectly for long periods of time. And we're not supposed to. The immune system is our mask.
I challenge you to find one talking head on TV during the first two years who was commentating on masks that didn't start with this:
"We KNOW masks work "
I don't think these people believe in the concept of sunk cost.
I
Smart kid. Another assumption of this "science" is that masks kill germs instead of collecting them and spreading through hands.
i had a double layer polyester mask with the Humana logo on it. i kept it in my pocket with dirty kleenex and soot, probably some Bubonic plague. maybe i washed it twice the whole time
All of it was nonsense
Yeah, I'm still stuck in Hellinois you lucky basstard! Someday, some way I'm gonna get my tired old ass down there buddy!
Look me up when you do!
good for you!
Smart kid. Where in Florida are you? If I may be so bold as to ask. Not only would the masks have to worn perfectly everywhere by everybody guidelines as to the changing and washing them would have to be agreed upon. You can't have one person using cold water rinse on a mask worn for 3 days.
Sarasota area.
Mask are worse than ineffective.
Example of REAL science:
If a masks has a gap anywhere along the perimeter of your face than it creates a jet propulsion effect, thereby projecting the virus further than exhaling sans masks.
Physics...but alas the scientific method was given as tribute to the vid sky gods
I noticed folks with mask often coughed into them without covering or putting their face in crook of elbow. Sneezing or coughing into a mask is far worse.
Our species is so lazy now we don't have the energy to pull a handkerchief or kleenex out of our pockets. So now we strap them to our face and just let em rip!
"Wear your mask! There are people in our community who are at risk. We must protect them!"
But those people were similarly at risk from a dozen other threats (like the seasonal flu) before the advent of COVID. What did they do to protect themselves then? Whatever they did, they should continue to do it and leave me alone. They were responsible for their own safety before, why am I now suddenly responsible for them too?
When David the "bubble-boy" needed protection, his community made sure he had what he needed to protect himself. Nobody advocated that everyone in his neighborhood should likewise live in a bubble.
Yes. Just so.
This is a great point.
Exactly.
Yes and? There was a study done where they assessed infections in surgeries when masking and not masking. No change. I believe the study was done at John Hopkins in the 1990s. And why wouldn't those studies be done? Wouldn't you want to know if covering your airway in a multiple hour surgery be effective? Is that science to assume and not know? No. Of course these studies have been done and have been washed and hidden. Masks do absolutely nothing but increase your probability of getting sick.
Wrong. In that study masks INCREASED the risk of infection. It just barely missed the 95% statistical threshold of significance. The best explanation for the counter-intuitive result is that the surgeons were deprived of oxygen by the mask and made more mistakes.
I think one of the drawbacks of masks is that people relax other known methods of infection control because they believe masking makes them unnecessary. Perhaps this is true of surgeons as well.
Because masking doesn't work to stop the spread of COVID, convincing people that they do encouraged people to expose themselves in public more often than if they had just been told "Socially isolate yourself as much as possible. Period."
I have to wonder how many cases of COVID could have been avoided had the ineffective masking policies not taken hold. (Not that I support lockdowns either. I'm just wondering if masking resulted in more infections because more people mistakenly felt safe in public because they thought they were protected.)
Who cares. It has a 99.9% survival rate. Live life, move on.
You should care. What if the same mistake is made next time, with a more dangerous virus?
You made a statement with no supporting statements or facts. How do you prevent a virus? You don't. NO one knows how one person sleeps next to their partner who has a bad case of covid and doesn't get it. The list is endless. Doctors read books written by the people who sell the drugs and the devices. There is nothing you can do to prevent a virus but stay healthy and keep your vitamin levels high. There ia no way to avoid a virus. That is the point.
I am sorry. Those books these doctors read do they mention hand washing? What about staying away from people when you are sick or very probably incubating a virus? Is not sneezing or coughing on kith and kin and various member of the public given a mention? Unlike the talismania of masking these are behaviors that will limit the spread of a virus. Staying healthy would be the best way but even the healthiest of persons do get sick. They however have a much better chance (not getting into the whole cytokine storm bit)) of a brief illness and full recovery.
I am unable to recall which study on the pros and cons of masking that showed one of the drawbacks of requiring masks, was just as I stated above, that people then grew lax in behaviors that are proven to help fight infections such as hand washing. There is also the fact that masks can very quickly get disgusting. That's a technical term.
The truth is Paula there is no way to avoid it. My wife had covid and omicron. I slept in the same bed both times and waited on her hand and foot. Got nothing and have no antibodies. Flew on a small plane next my freind who was coughing up a storm. I got nothing. Sure maybe it helps to stay away and mayve it doesn't. One sick kid was recently brought around 5 others. All slept in same room together. The one kid sleeping the furthest away did catch her sickness. The other 4 did not. Washing hands? Naw. Germs are good for your body, I don't buy any of it. It's mostly all BS so someone can make a buck. And vaccines never stopped a thing. Check out the book Disolving Illustions.
Than it's even worse than I remember. Since you seem to remember better was it John Hopkins? Do you have a link or links?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf
Thanks
NYT is far too tiresome to slog through. The paywall, in which they self identify as ‘independent journalists’ is a small, yet humorous, deterrent to reading it, in comparison to the ‘hyper-cleansed’ narratives it presents for public consumption. If they bother to fact check something as false, there’s a better than good chance that it’s true.
I have come to learn verifying what's right and fair is easy. Anything politicans and the media repeat more than a couple times is total BS and the opposite is actually true.
And to expand on that a bit, so they don't cough droplets on an open wound, not to block aerosols. And we knew COVID spread via aerosols, something masks are terrible at blocking, by about May '20.
Could we be honest? COVID was scary, people desperately wanted some way to feel protected and/or to feel they were helping, masks provided that belief.
But Covid wasn't scary. The reporting of Covid was scary. But I guarantee you, if we gathered and did stories about any disease, there are bad outcomes.
As someone else commented elsewhere:
"Imagine virus so deadly you need to be tested to know if you have it, and a vaccine so safe and effective that its uptake must be mandated."
Yes. I can also hear this being delivered in Rod Serlings voice.
I get the oddest arguments when I am dealing with some of these people who are pro vaccine.
I threw up a couple graphs based on the ONS data and they are saying "well this doesn't tell us who was vaccinated." And my thought is "This vaccine was said to be 90% effective. At the very least we should be continually seeing lower numbers among the vaccinated PERIOD according to the assanine assertions made by the CDC and the WHO and whoever else spouted the "safe and effective" crap.
Also I know the ONS data is horribly incomplete. EL Gato Malo did a great job of at least explaining it, and linked articles to show more of it. I also think his point is spot on, the state should not be responsible for the data collection just as they shouldn't be responsible for investigating themselves on their integrity level in creating constitutional policy.
Chicago for pizza.
if you don't mind getting carjacked on the way
You could stay in the suburbs of Chicago and find some good pizza.
I live in the suburbs west of chicago- please tell me where to go- I can't find it- and I lived in in NYC for 40 years
Doesn't your supermarket carry Home Run Inn Pizza?
You might have to go towards the lake but the places are on the Northside so you should be sort of safe. Check out Pequod's Pizza.
Pequod's is fabulous.
NYC.
There is a great show on YouTube called "Chicago Eats". There is definitely some good pizza in Chicago.
ok I"ll check it out CS!
I also thought it was a barrier in case of body fluids…sneezes sure but if you’ve ever treated a wound and had blood spurt in your face….yikes.
It is true they are used for this purpose, but there is debate as to how effective masks are even for that.
Depending on the surgery (e.g., orthopedic surgery), a surgeon may wear a helmet with a respirator.
And bacteria are something quite different to viruses...
You mean to the people who haven't been asked this question since 2020?
You apparently place yourself below the midwits, then? Turns out there's not much evidence that masks in surgery have any benefits (based on measure of post-op infections.)
I still can't get past this one thing.
That if you believe that masks work. Why are you so obsessed about me not wearing one. Why, for the first time in YOUR life are you all of a sudden concerned about me inhaling a virus. And if you are so concerned about public health, where are you on vaping, smoking, drinking, and dozens of other public health issues that cause tens of thousands of deaths every year. You're not protesting in front of any bars are you. The fact is we all know they couldn't care less about my health. They're just upset that I'm not in the fraternal order of maskers. Many of us know where this group think ultimately takes a society. Which is why I am against all "hate" crime laws and "domestic terrorist" laws....because we all know, that one day, we will be considered terrorists for not "going along" with the group think policy of the day.
They're simply concerned that you might burden the system when you get sick, which could interfere THEIR ability to get treatment. So it's ultimately a selfish motive, on their part. These are, after all the same folks who said that unvaxxed/unmasked folks shouldn't get treatment - apparently only vaxxed folks who got sick DESPITE a) vaccination (transfection) and b) masking up the wazoo were worthy.
These are lemmings with a nasty disposition.
I'm okay with the "don't burden the system" narrative. But I would like to invite that person to go spend a day with me sitting in the Emergency Room at Ben Taub Hospital here in Houston and let's see what's really "burdening" our system. You'll never see a CNN or MSNBC reporter doing THAT. It would destroy their narrative.
no unvaccinated people i knew burdened the system. they stayed as far away from the hospital as possible. they paid out of pocket for their own IVM and got better overnight, some using the horse paste version. my BF and i got covid this past june. for me it was a mild flu lasting 2 days. for him it was 3 days. we did not use a hospital or even a doctor.
meanwhile, i get to read my morbidly obese "friend" in NYC who takes cabs a few blocks to work because he's too fat to walk and is on various medications (he has relapsed from bariatric surgery and gained back every ounce plus) calling for all unvaccinated people to "hurry up and die already" lest they swamp the system. i wonder if he would have said that to my face. i'll never know because i never intend to speak to him again.
I am overweight and unvaccinated. I ended up in the hospital due to my diabetes and had my leg amputated. I will tell you those of us who are overweight know were Covid ranks in terms of the danger to them. When I was given the sales pitch for the vaccine from my doctor, I asked her if it would not be better that I take better care of my obesity and diabetes than to get vaccinated for something that I already had, that was experimental, that didn't stop the spread or infection, etc.
This is intriguing. Details, please, I want to know more!
Illegal aliens using emergency rooms as healthcare.
nailed it. wall-to-wall.
It's literally the entire problem, plus maybe urban homeless generally doing the same thing, but even there, there's overlap.
I'm not okay with the "burdening the system" narrative. The problem is staffing and nurse burnout, and it's due to the state taking over healthcare that is causing it. We should be working to create a better healthcare system, not hastening it's demise.
i took my late father to the VA ER one saturday early evening in november of 2019 (before covid). they wanted to put him in an ICU bed but there were no rooms in the inn. the ICU was SWAMPED, probably with selfish cancer patients keeping a WW2 vet from getting the care he needed.
the VA called two nearby large hospitals, one a world renowned teaching hospital and they were both full up. at 3:00am, the teaching hospital called to say an ICU room had opened up and we were loaded into an ambulance for the 2 block ride.
funny, there were no stories on the front page the next morning about the dire shortage of ICU beds in 3 major hospitals. Rachel Madcow didn't do any features on the situation. ICUs are always full.
hospitals are businesses. full ICUs is good business. too many beds and not enough patients to fill them means MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN. Check out the hospital bed rates per 100,000 populations of the various countries around the world.
absolutely. my point was that ICU beds are always full but during covid, the media was always panicking that they were full because of covid, then because of unvaccinated covid, now i guess of breakthrough vaccinated covid. it's always something
exactly...I'm sure there are vacancies in ICU's occasionally, but the whole philosophy behind intensive "care" is that if you can provide...do it, so they are always occupied. Sure, the darker side may be that they are billing an insurance company a fortune for care that isn't mandatory. But that's another issue that's even more difficult to resolve.
Great joke
Lemmings and all
We really are a bunch of irrational narcissists.
Oh they care for you ...like you live in East Palastine care....
"Your mask protects me" was the most insidious lie of all.
It’s safest in the middle of the herd. And sometimes the herd is in fact going in the right direction. If not, at least you have company while you plunge over the cliff.
Oh I think all of us on these stacks are already on DOJ-FBI NAUGHTY LIST!
and why was there no outcry against mask pollution? where did all those non-biodegradable masks and plastic antigen tests end up? in the land fill? in the waterways?
Exactly....but they went ballistic when they found out that 100,000,000 cigarette butts got washed into bays of LA during a hard rain. But 50,000,000,000,000 masks no one seems to care about.
They also went into hysterics about plastic straws. But dirty masks on the ground all over the place....not a problem, apparently.
According to them, disagreement is hate.
The reason we have an idiocracy is due to the reality that formal education for the past 40 years or so has produced a mass of idiots. Thankfully, the biggest idiots appear to be intent on self-immolation with endless rounds of experimental death jabs. Here in the Southern US, we just ignore the idiots, while welcoming all of the intelligent folks abandoning the parasitic hellholes like NYC.
As Yuri said, you cannot reason with a demoralized person. COVID mandates and BLM/Antifa riots destroyed NYC: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/escapefromnewyork
The Branch Covidians will never believe that their precious masks are useless.
Yes, they are now for lack of a better term, mentally ill/PTSD'd indefinitely.
Sadly, my mother still uses one whenever she goes out. My doctor's office still requires them.
so does my Dr's office, however the front office workers aren't wearing them in the front office, and my Dr ends up with his below his nose. I have a mask that I wear there called an 'unmask'. Basically it's a covering with 2 layers, one has holes in it so you can breath, and the other is very thin and covers the one with holes so you can't see them.
switch doctors
I'm looking for a new doctor. The last time that I went, she had 3 masks on. My mask kept sliding down my face and she repeatedly told me to pull it up over my nose, I eye rolled so much, I am surprised that I didn't have a seizure.
look for functional or integrative doctors. they don't take insurance so you'll have to pay out of pocket. however, they charge fairly for their services and do not inflate their prices to capitalize on the graft of insurance. also, they can treat you with what is best for you, not according to protocols set by insurance companies and they won't have to code you if you are unvaccinated. they will focus on keeping you healthy with nutrition, not with drugs
i meant "functional." does anyone know what happened to the edit function?
Cleveland Clinic here does as well. But medical facilities are often the verrry last to pay attention to evidence that their protocols are at best useless. Which is why that crap about nothing by mouth (even water) after midnight prior to surgery even if that surgery is at 3PM the next day is still the rule in many hospitals. They just don't care what the evidence shows. They care about the convenience of staff.
I think a lot of it is pure optics and the doctors don't want a hysterical maskoid patient complaining somewhere. I recently had a sudden torn retina. My ophthamologist met me at the office at 8:00 p.m. on a Saturday night to check what was happening. No mask on me, no mask on him. Next day I went to a retina specialist for a laser treatment to repair the tear. It was a Sunday at 11:00 a.m. No mask on me, no mask on the doctor. When I went back in a few days to get a first check on the laser treatment, it was regular office hours, all patients were masked, I had to put one on theoretically, but I ignored the sign and didn't wear a mask and no one said anything. The doctor came in to check my eyes and his mask was down under his chin. Probably with other masked patients he pulled the mask up.
Someone should write the NYT's asking them if CHILDREN should be told the truth and if masking them for TWO FUCKING YEARS was a hideous mistake made by cowardly adults.
Ask them if they're proud of promoting child abuse.
I would, but I canceled my NYT subscription 3 years ago.
I freaking refuse to read that rag too.
Pravda
Same. WSJ also.
Took me 3 calls and a couple hours for WSJ to cancel my membership. They billed me for 6 months after I caught it.
They've become Pravda-light
I may just steal “the Faucian faithful”! Makes a nice alliterative counterpart to the Covidian cult.
Very clever of you to delve into the comments, which are headsmackingly obtuse, just as I would expect from Stockholm syndrome captives clinging to their captors’ catechisms.
Regarding the NYT story itself, I’ll cheat and share a comment I posted elsewhere as I’m well past my bedtime and too bleary-eyed to compose something original:
They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and are now pretending they’re just putting a stolen cookie back.
I notice they’re still perpetuating the use of name-calling (“conspiracy theorists” and “quack-cure peddlers”) and will pull those tricks out of their bag to lob at anyone who questions the next narrative.
The only way to defend against this tactic is to let the bullets pass through you. That’s when you realize they were just imaginary, and they’ll never work to silence you again:
• “Letter to a Mainstream Straddler: Live Not by Half-Lies” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-mainstream-straddler)
'faucian faithful' is all yours, margaret anna alice :)
Haha, very chivalrous of you, eugyppius. I’ll gladly hat tip you if I do use it 🎩
It all reminds me of the tales of Circe enthralling men and turning them into blind sycophantic obedient actual beasts
My hypothesis is simply that masking made them feel good. They were “doing something!” It felt so wonderful to be part of fighting the plague. They could look around and see everyone else doing it. Therefore there was no possibility they could be wrong. Everyone agreed! It warmed their hearts. We’re all in this together! We’re all good people doing the right thing! Powerfully intoxicating and therefore addictive. Those who masked out of genuine fear really really wanted to belief the magic talisman would ward off the evil illness.
Yep. Exactly. They probably all have the "current thing" plastered in their profile picture on all of their social media apps. And posting the rainbow circle, a Ukraine flag and wearing a mask all helped the exact same amount. Zilch.
Makes them feel safe and flock to use another unsafe product...
Is nothing too unsafe to do in the name of safety?
https://medium.com/edge-of-innovation/how-safe-are-graphene-based-face-masks-b88740547e8c
" “Health Canada has conducted a preliminary risk assessment which identified a potential for early pulmonary toxicity associated with the inhalation of nanoform graphene. To date, Health Canada has not received data to support the safety and efficacy of face masks containing nanoform graphene.
“As such, and in the absence of manufacturer’s evidence to support the safe and effective use of nanoform graphene coated masks, Health Canada considers the risk of these medical devices to be unacceptable.”"
My brain is forever re-wired. I read it and my first, and perhaps only, reaction is why now? What is the message behind the message? Are they preparing us for a regime change and pandering/patronizing us to ease us into it? Are they done with pandemics for now and are shifting to chemical warfare (i.e. a different kind of chemical warfare)?
If the NYT is publishing this, gratuitously I might add, something else is afoot.
Trying to re-write the past. I have already had several people tell me that 'they' never said that the vaxx was effective against transmission.
LOL, I just had that argument with my mgr. who told me to vax or go 18 months ago.
I printed out several Fauci bytes re; 'immunization' etc....he started dissembling then said the term 'immunization' was indeed problematic, I asked him is that why they changed the definition, he didnt know they had done that...hes an ignoramus and berserk in defense=progressive foot soldier .
Way to go, educating the stupid apes. Keep on truckin'.
I have too. How quickly they forget, or perhaps it’s an indication of how truly stupid they are.
I think many of them are embarrassed that they believed it all in the 1st place. Just can't admit that they were wrong.
Some people are tip-toeing into revisionist history of their behavior.
To restore credibility? Or are they working hard at something else? I see them as a deep state arm and nothing more.
I think you are right. There’s a lot of repositioning going on in various places as the truth emerges with people wanting to play the ‘sinner who repenteth’ card in mitigation when the Court trials start.
Seeing any of this madness ever make it into the courts is wishful thinking - at least, in Canada it is. The courts are corrupt to the core. Just had a case go through the Ontario court of appeal where a father didn't want the kid to get the jab but the mother did. Court ruled for the mother.
The Freedom Convoy enquiry? The judge in that is a Liberal party apologist. Outcome was that Trudeau was justified in invoking the Emergencies Act - so he was justified in freezing bank accounts of supporters of the Convoy. Dangerous precedent has now been set, in that any protest that the Government doesn't like can be instantly squashed by police and freezing funds.
The whole mask thing is (IMO) a massive diversion to focus attention away from the ongoing power grab by the WHO crew who want future pandemics to be run by them and are changing the International Health Regulations (IHR) to do exactly that.
That is horrifying. Dangerous precedent indeed. He needs to go by ANY means necessary and so do his cronies.
The opinion piece is written by Bret Stephens. He is one of the NYT’s “conservative” commentators whose job it is to write rage click bait for the Time’s “liberal” readers. The intent is to actually make the average NYT reader even more sure of how awesome masks are.
It would be ingenious for the NYT to bait its commenters with this article just to crowdsource the most popular retort. Apparently the winners are "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" and "real masking has never been tried."
CYA in my opinion. The winds are shifting and they can smell it.
NYT and CNN claim to be making an effort to move back to the center because they see their readership numbers plummeting and their reputations destroyed (at least in the minds of non Wokesters). However, I tend to believe it is only lip service. Any serious effort to reflect a non Woke viewpoint still creates huge shockwaves within their organizations (.e.g., the anti-Trans article several days ago), showing that they are still deeply controlled by the extreme Left.
LOL, no way. Not only controlled by the extreme left, I would argue that they are a direct arm of the deep state. No unapproved article or agenda sneaks through. I think it's a lot more controlled than we imagine. It was not this way 30 years ago, but it is now.
Leftism itself has been coopted by neoliberals to push the same things Republicans used to shill, eg beliefs like ‘profit motive healthcare, insurance and public transport ensure the best, most efficient service’ and ‘war is always a patriotic and societal good that liberates the populace of both sides, when waged by the US’, but now, with a delicious woke candy coating.
So then, just for self-interest. Very possible. Despite their garbage news, they are still the leader. I guess they can only play the line so much before they head done the chute like CNN did.
Apparently Brett Stephens is their house conservative. I imagine articles like this serve to keep the faithful ginned up.
We have been turned into a people who had a minimum trust in our government and major trust in our doctors; now not so much. We view with suspicion any action by the former, even if it could be, for once, benign and wonder if doctors' other recommendations are well-informed.
Maybe we have just been forced to be truly mature.
What the Cochrane says is that we have no evidence masks work in the real world. Elsewhere, they might be effective. Even if masks did work, a recommendation to use them would not follow until we could assess the benefit of masks vs. the harm from masks.
To the NYT commenters, the effectiveness of masks is so obvious as to be beyond evaluation.
we have no evidence that masks do anything anywhere, basically. there's also no evidence they work in healthcare contexts. the bad/insufficient studies line doesn't really save the situation, because this is very often what the literature looks like when a theory/intervention/whatever doesn't work. publication is biased heavily towards positive results.
Full-time, long-time member of team reality here, but I have a serious question. What about vs. bacteria? I was under the impression that masks in a healthcare situation (surgeries, hospitals generally) still made sense because they worked against bacteria which are orders of magnitude larger than viruses? Is that incorrect?
that's the theory, but have a look at this twitter thread, which reviews most of the study evidence:
https://twitter.com/Fynnderella1/status/1620470557409157120?s=20&t=tnFlV-trDfp6XzZaoeR7jw
in practice, masks just don't do anything. not even surgical masks against bacteria. maybe they shield hospital personnel from blood spatter or bodily fluids of patients.
That last is probably true, at least during birth. The pictures from when my children were born look like slasher film stills.
Got it. Danke schön, Herr Eugyppius!
Science needs to normalize being wrong imo. It’s valid information
all studies should be re-registered. it should be a prerequisite of publication; all respectable journals should refuse to accept any paper on an study findings that wasn't pre-registered.
then we could go around, and look at all the pre-registered studies that never resulted in publication, and draw important conclusions about all the interventions for which there is no evidence.
Big flaw in your article eugy. Please show us one Team Reality comment so we can imagine the outrage amongst the NYT readers. Just for fun.
the thing is, I only read with comments with 50 reader recommendations or higher, so nobody could accuse me of cherry picking the craziest people. couldn't find a single one of them agreeing with stephens.
Wow. It is still funny.
The defining characteristic of indoctrinated NYT sheeple
Probably the NYT mods, at the least, shadowbanned any comments like that.
they do
Damn it! You are right.
Surgeons and nurses wear masks in operating rooms because the masks were designed to stop BACTERIA. Bacteria are huuuge compared to viruses. And in an operating room, with someone’s body lying there open, what does the patient need protection from. Bacteria. That surgeon who said “I think they work really great” when he was talking about masks stopping corona doesn’t even know what they actually do.
indeed. and, even for this limited purpose, there's no really no evidence masks do anything. they really do seem to be broadly purposeless.
There's some question if that's of any benefit to patients. No environment is completely sterile, and healthy patients' immune systems can deal with quite a bit of infectious material without much help.
arguably the only benefit is in shielding medical personnel blood spatter and the like. limited studies available on patient outcomes from masked vs. unmasked surgical personnel really show no difference in outcome. now, those studies are probably underpowered, etc., but still, there seems not to be a huge effect.
the whole question of how masking even arose, given that nobody can find it works but everyone finds it at some level comforting or convincing of hygiene, is very interesting.
it also helps make them look more doctor-y
still, if i was wheeled into a room & the last thing i saw as the anesthesia was lowered was an unmasked surgeon with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, i would probably think he was cool & knew what he was doing
Just human nature - the compulsive, overwhelming need to be seen to be "doing something".
I am currently tracking this for a New Zealand based piece I am working on and can pretty clearly show (it’s been said before in other countries!) that it was a group of shrill influenza experts who seized the narrative and admit to lobbying government to implement masks. The hilarious thing is they publicly did posts with references….that if you read them are too frequently poor quality sure, but also the study comes to the opposite conclusion on masks if you actually read it. We also had a u turn on masks here and another govt doc shows it could be used ‘so people remember risk’. Will share if you are interested…
I totally agree. I just remember researching masks at the beginning of the pandemic because I was so horrified by them being a requirement to function in real life and I remember seeing there was reason to believe the masks did do something to stop bacteria, even if it was just a little bit, but that masks did zero to stop viruses. So many people get infections from hospitals and we live in such a litigious culture that I can see why they are standard operating procedure for surgeries, but researchers have known for decades that masks do nothing to stop viruses. Hospitals and deceived doctors can be forgiven for the former, but not the latter.
Masks works great if you'r a shareholder in the companies making and distributing them.
also if you're a german politician who can take payments for steering mask contracts to major manufacturers, they work great.
They'll be masking in their pods as well. By that point they won't even need to take the mask off because they'll have an IV hooked up to their arm full of 'ze bugz' in liquid form. Then admonish anyone that doesn't want to live like them.
Sounds wild, but with VR and transhumanism coming full steam ahead, in 30 years this could be closer to reality than we think...
Thanks for this: evidence of why I no longer read the NYTimes which BTW is not just a reflection of what goes on in Brooklyn but also in California and other progressive enclaves. We are no better off on data, translating that data and implementing that data on all the dumb things we did and mandated over the past 3 years. It’s really quite appalling and sad. These same debates took place during the 1918 pandemic. We have not evolved.