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Ki's avatar

There should be no 'public health', period. No one should make their living on this, because the interests with actual public health are inherently mis-aligned. Case-in-point, per the RFK, Jr. book, Fauci was a newbie at NIAID in the late 1970's and there wasn't much going on. Cut to the emergence of HIV and he rode that hobby horse into the ground to get funding for NIAID, to the detriment of HIV patients. Money grubbing bureaucracies and actual health are never aligned to help the humans and all of these three to five letter agencies need to be abolished.

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eugyppius's avatar

agreed

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John Carter's avatar

100%. Public health is a fancy way of saying, tyranny of the self-appointed expert class. At best they should serve in an advisory role, issuing recommendations that free humans can either follow or not on their own recognizance. They should never again be allowed to micromanage our lives through regulatory mandate - a pathology which is much older than Corona lockdowns (the ubiquitous 'no smoking' signs that cover public spaces being the most obvious example of their handiwork).

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Ki's avatar

The USDA food pyramid is all the proof anyone needs that these expert class recommendations produce catastrophic results.

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John Carter's avatar

Word. Decades of public health have left westerners obese, ugly, ill, and miserable. All in the service of corporate profits and political control.

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Ki's avatar

Ain't no money in healthy humans.

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Sirka Sie's avatar

Exactly. This requires that we take responsibility for ourselves but it’s sooo much easier just to get a jab, or two or three. On that note a old colleague of mind got his booster yesterday…in the hospital today with heart problems.

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J Wolfmoon's avatar

Ya really!! It’s not like their advice or policies have helped humans in any way I’m the past!

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Bandit's avatar

I don't think public health has anything to do with people being ugly. That is usually genetic. Unless you mean morally and spiritually ugly. Then it's part genetics and a lot of upbringing. Still not public health. If you're trying to say that all overweight people are ugly, then that's a matter of personal taste. Genetic and learned.

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T and J's avatar

I think John C makes a good point about public health menaces indirectly causing many bad outcomes in people , including the “ ugly “ trait. Does anyone think these menaces make for pretty people ?

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Tank Hough's avatar

Yup---ketchup is a vegetable according to these experts. They were a joke then and worse now.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Seems like I can place my favorite chocolate in the fruit department LOL

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John Bowman's avatar

Having steered the population away from high protein (no carbohydrates) meat to ‘healthy’ alternatives like rice and pasta (all carb), away from animal fats to (toxic) seed-oils, encouraged ‘healthy’ salads which are not filling so inevitably result in snacking on sugary cakes, sweets and biscuit - now we have an ‘obesity crisis’.

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baker charlie's avatar

If your salad isnt filling, you're doing it wrong. But then I eat salad by the mixing bowl. (and it doesn't hurt I'm a cook and actually put other things in it). :)

I've been gluten free for some time due to wheat allergies picked up working in bakeries. Whenever this comes up in conversation ( I rarely mention it, others ask me aboout it) the other person invariably says "I could never live without pasta/bread." My response it that there are decent substitutes, but it's funny, once you get over them- it takes about 4-6 weeks- you don't really miss them. It is an addiction of sorts, really.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Great comparison, all the fraud with the big food industry.

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Rascal Nick Of's avatar

Precisely. "Experts" are well-paid liars that hide deceit in complexity.

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Martyn's avatar

"I am Deceit!"

~Tony Fauci

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Bob Thebuilder's avatar

Agreed, IMO, most aren't even doctors; none of them care about 'The Science.'

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

I agree .Some call that Tetros guy ,the front man for the W.H.O. a doctor .I saw his picture earlier today and the man looks frightening ,like the leader of a Mexican gang . He is owned and paid for by Bill Gates . Now the W.H.O. is plotting to become the world health /sickness dictatorship ,overruling all governments of the planet . If that plan works out for them our extermination is assured . I would not let a ''doctor '' like that cut my toe nails . For me at 86 now, those events don't matter much ,old age will take care of that .For the young people I feel sad ,what future have they got ? Some may say that will never happen ,but look what happened so far .All the demonstrations and protests so far where mostly brushed aside by the evil forces .

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baker charlie's avatar

I'm OK with no smoking in restaurants. I'd rather taste my food. But that is more about being polite. That said, the 25 foot injunctions and other crap are just silly.

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John Carter's avatar

There's a reason they started with smoking: tobacco has been divisive since the moment Raleigh introduced it. Some genuinely adore it and others find it noxious. There are almost certainly genetic reasons for that, as with cilantro.

But the bans were obviously never about health (who goes to a bar for their health?) They were about social control, or more fundamentally, about accustoming people to the idea that unelected, anonymous bureaucrats could simply ban a certain activity, with no democratic input and no means of redress. It was about getting society used to the premise that this was a valid way of ordering society; once that premise was accepted, the camel's nose was in the tent and it was just a hop, skip, and a jump to 'two more weeks'.

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John Bowman's avatar

Historical note: tobacco, centuries ago, was grown in England in substantial amounts. James IV of England hated the smell of smoking, thought it was unhealthy, so be banned tobacco farming. This led to an increase in imported tobacco. So why didn’t he ban this and ban smoking? Weeeell… tobacco imports were subject to Customs Duty which filled the Privy Purse and Jimmy, a prolific spender, was hard up and needed the money. So as tobacco use and therefore imports increased, so did Customs revenue and as much as King James hated smoking, he loved money much more. As ever - follow the money.

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Martyn's avatar

"Some genuinely adore it and others find it noxious."

And , some of us have one foot in each camp. I love my cigars on occasion, but would dearly hate having to endure your cigarette.

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carol ann's avatar

I remember a older lady saying to me once " I don't smoke, but I love being with smokers, such a lively bunch of people" (or something similar). There's also the whole ritual of smoking (gives you something to do when waiting, for example). Now taken over by mobile phones.

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baker charlie's avatar

I don't smoke except socially. The time my friends and I are out on the back porch or out in the alley are usually highlights of the evening.

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carol ann's avatar

I agree. Many bars and restaurants have no problem with providing smoking areas often outside of the main area but that wasn't good enough for the regulators who went on about needing a (you guessed it) a safe and healthy workplace) for the staff. This was never true because patrons could always order inside and take their food/drinks outside to where they were sitting. As an aside, here, they have ramped up the tax on cigarettes so much that there is a thriving black market. I've recently read that the medical costs associated with smokers is no where near as much as we were told mainly due to the fact that many die younger. (their choice, I guess!)

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John Bowman's avatar

You are correct. Paradoxically whilst short-term medical expense increases, lifetime medical expense for smokers, drinkers, fatties is significantly less than virtuous, healthy people because the sinners die earlier and so do not live to require medical intervention fir non-related diseases, or require elder care. Their early death is also a benefit to pensions. I have to declare a dislike for smoking and so welcome no-smoking zones, but ‘live and let live’, I am for provisions for those who wish to smoke. But as you say, with ‘campaigners’ there never is enough - no matter what concessions they win, always, always, ‘it doesn’t go far enough’. And yes it ends up counter-productive. Increased taxes have encouraged smuggling and ironically a reduction in tax receipts. In some Countries, UK is one, packets must be plain (apart from garish illustrations of lung disease) and cannot carry the brand name. This has of course resulted in widespread counterfeiting, with product sold at lower prices. Put these two together and it defeats the original intentions, and encourages more smoking. I think Irish Republic has or will soon ban smoking in the street. Campaigners are agitating to prohibit smoking in cars with more than one occupant, and to ban it in homes where there are children present. There is an insatiable appetite for some to meddle in everyone else’s lives.

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John Carter's avatar

It's the meddling that sticks in my craw. It inevitably leads to unintended consequences, and leaves the world an uglier, shabbier, more joyless place.

It also seems to me that it very often answers a non-existent demand. Before smoking was banned in bars, there was a brief time when bars had smoking and non-smoking areas. The non-smoking areas were reliably empty; non-smokers in bars (restaurants are obviously a different story) clearly didn't care that much about second-hand smoke. Then there were the low-quality studies about second-hand smoke itself, which tried to make a minor irritant into an actual toxin. Didn't take long before the studies were revealed as bunk, but by then they'd served their purpose.

Look at the way that campaign unfolded, and you see the blueprint for what they did with Corona.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Public Health has transformed itself into a religion with followers, rituals, icons, and commandments.

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Apr 14, 2022
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SF Bay Area's avatar

You think you need public health to provide advice about washing your hands. Come on you are ignoring the fact that we would have figured all the so called benefits you mention and some anyway without public health agencies.

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John Carter's avatar

Precisely.

The problem isn't public health making recommendations. The problem is them enforcing those recommendations as mandates.

The hand-washing example is an interesting one. It didn't catch on because public health enforced it. Initially the medical community was completely against it, as they thought germ theory was nonsense. But over time, evidence piled up, and it became standard practice.

If we'd had public health mandates in that era it's more likely they would have banned hand-washing entirely as contrary to The Science of the miasma theory.

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carol ann's avatar

Yes, but public health 'experts' 'know' that we need them to do it properly. When this covid thing got started, instructions sheets appeared in the restrooms at work with about 10 steps about how to wash your hands the safe way. I looked but couldn't figure out it out because they didn't make any sense then or now (like most of their instructions/guidelines etc)

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HardeeHo's avatar

And I'm sure you remember all those instructions on proper mask usage, right? Somehow they left out the part that the outer surfaces can become magnets for nominally harmless pathogens in smaller amounts. Too clever by far.

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Cindi's avatar

If nothing else, the abject cruelty, ruination & inhumane actions (& the terrible consequences of same) of global “public health” officials & politicians proves w/out doubt that this was never about “public health”

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John Bowman's avatar

Certainly not when ‘public health’ is concerned with just one disease as if no others existed and no other health concerns need be addressed.

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Cindi's avatar

I KNOW! When the true believers were bleating only about wu-flu, I kept asking, what about everybody else dying of everything else every day???? It didn’t matter. And they didn’t have an answer except “but Corona!”

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John Bowman's avatar

And not just dying but actually being killed, by failure to provide treatment, driven to suicide because of the emotional constraints of lockdown or despair over your bankrupted business, elderly people cut off from all contact with loved ones and just giving up, and then by experimental vaccines whose safety was unknown but now their lack of safety is.

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Cindi's avatar

Not to mention murder in hospitals via vents & l destroying meds causing multi system organ failure….

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buddhi's avatar

Fauci has been the prime enabler of Pharma's capture of the regulatory agencies; that's been his baby.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

There are pockets of good work in these agencies. I saw that up close and in person. But agreed, now that the potential for such massive abuse and fraud has been exposed, it should all be abolished. There are too many egos, too many there for political or profiteering reasons more than science and they all overstay their welcome. Term limits of 5-8 year contracts for the NIH institutes at all levels of management. Mixing of NIH with DARPA and biodefense goals and funds should be prohibited. Fauci created an empire for himself at a colossal scale for any government employee.

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T and J's avatar

If they all should be abolished, then let’s forget about 5 year contracts and term limits . Mutually exclusive to me .

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John Bowman's avatar

Mission creep. The initial concept of public health - sanitation, hygiene, food quality, food handling, co-ordinating response to outbreaks of contagion - was sound. However over the last 30 years or so, the line between public health and private health has been eroded. Now private health has been socialised, nationalised. It’s now ‘the Nation’s health’ as if a Nation could have an aggregate of the health of the individuals in it.

Your waistline and diet, for example, is a matter of public concern, therefore your lifestyle is a matter for Governmental regulation and intervention on an individual, personal level. The excuse is… the burden on the health care system. Sound familiar? In the case of the UK with its Stalin era State-run Socialist leviathan the NHS, your adjudged poor lifestyle is a strain on the public purse unfair to other taxpayers, but even in the USA with its dog’s breakfast, mish-mash of Obamacare and private insurance, your lifestyle is unfair to other policy holders whose premiums will increase.

But it is discriminatory. And it discriminates according to class. The lifestyles of the bien-pensants, those of a liberal persuasion - Winter sports, general sportng & fitness activity, for example - with the frequent trauma that goes with that, is an approved burden, but lifestyle of the Deplorables, the Unwashed, junk food, smoking, drinking non-approved.

Just this week in the UK a legal requirement has been introduced for catering companies of 250 employees or more, to put the calorie count on menus next to dishes. Apart from the absurdity of measuring calorie count with variable portion sizes and variable ingredients, what is the difference between a company with 249 employees and 250? Well most restaurants do not have 250 employees, so the legislation is aimed at restaurant chains like hamburger restaurants and others that serve low cost, filling food to the Unwashed. Go to a high-end restaurant serving meals with 10x more calories than burger and fries at 20x the price and there will be no calorie count on the menu - because the upper echelons don’t need to be schooled in lifestyle choices, the same sort who are mask and vax zealots.

Public Health England, the Govt agency, did a lousy job during the CoVid crazy, so got closed down to be replaced by the UK Health Security Agency. So now your health, my health is a matter of National security - so we know where that’s heading.

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baker charlie's avatar

Well, one has to admit it's not as easy to eat fettucine alfredo everyday as it is to get 99 cent burgers at MacMeatly's.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Calorie counting as a weight loss strategy disproven years ago. The keto diet scientists put that idea in its grave. So all this calorie labeling needless expense. If you interview the food companies they admit these counts are just guestimates anyway.

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SF Bay Area's avatar

New York City banning 64 oz big gulps.

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baker charlie's avatar

That's stupid, but what is dumber is actually drinking a half gallon of corn syrup soda at a sitting. Extra dumb points for diet with aspartame.

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SF Bay Area's avatar

My point exactly. I don’t need elected officials to protect me from corn syrup overdose.

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John Bowman's avatar

It never occurs to the morons people can buy 2 x 32oz.

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SF Bay Area's avatar

100% correct

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HL_Mencraft's avatar

What floors me about the Senger book is that he considers stuff like that a "red herring." I very much appreciated Eugyppius' review on it, but find Senger's and Rintrah's blase denunciations of established wider conspiracy (namely, those they don't share). It's hardly wild conjecture, and it makes me not trust them.

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John Carter's avatar

Absolutely correct. The only way we avoid getting dragged back into the whole nightmare, as they're already threatening to do in the West and as is observably happening again in China, is to reject the premise that 'non-pharmaceutical interventions' are a valid tactic in any situation.

The way that happens is through savage mockery, yes, but it will also require simple, sustained non-compliant civil disobedience. Refuse to wear the masks, refuse to stay inside, refuse to close your business, refuse to pay whatever fines they attempt to punish you with, refuse to do anything they either ask or demand. Two years after 'just two weeks' it should be abundantly clear that obedience only results in more demands for obedience.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I'm in. I will never submit again. I'm willing to literally die on this hill for all the days I'm sent.

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John Carter's avatar

So say we all, brother. So say we all.

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Guttermouth's avatar

We just need enough people to follow their fucking conviction.

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SF Bay Area's avatar

Let’s start at the airports. Stop fucking wearing a mask on the planes. If 20% of the people boarding the plane said no they would stop telling us to wear masks on the plane.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I haven't flown since the beginning of mandates, and I won't fly again until they're gone. I've driven hundreds of miles for business rather than fly. I enjoy helping the airlines lose millions as I know they could lobby this away if they wanted to badly enough.

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Randall Bachman's avatar

Agreed. I avoid flying at all costs, even with the modest inconvenience of long drives.

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Motu is in Charge's avatar

Me too. Used to fly 100,000kms a year. Now none. Amazing how I have adapted with only a slight adjustment in lifestyle and income.

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J Wolfmoon's avatar

I think a lot of us are.

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Guttermouth's avatar

Let's see.

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Randall Bachman's avatar

I did it with my family and our small business. We did just fine. But even here is sunny Texas, with the freedom blowing in the breezes, I still have about half of my customers wearing masks. They have scared the black people and the hispanics so much, that they still wear these stupid things. I think most have avoided the toxic goo, but they probably frequent the free Covid testing tents regularly.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I see the same racial breakdown here, too, with the difference very starkly visible. It's fascinating.

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John Carter's avatar

The blacks are a curious bunch. They clearly don't trust whitey when it comes to the magic science juice, which is wise on their part. On the other hand, they're clearly terrified of the virus and have an almost superstitious belief in the efficacy of masks to ward it off.

Early in the pandemic I watched a black guy walking down the street spraying himself down with air freshener while avoiding getting too close to people. Seemed like he thought the nice smell would kill the virus.

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God Bless America's avatar

I guess a lot of us have forgotten about Tuskegee… 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ 🔥🔥🔥

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Abner Knight's avatar

40 years to flatten the curve...

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God Bless America's avatar

😱😱😱😡 nope…

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carol ann's avatar

Some people are addicted to masks:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBsCHDdi_O4

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

In Canada if you do't comply with their demands ,the storm troopers come arrest you go to prison ,than court and back to prison again .By the way if you do get out of prison your bank account may be empty .

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God Bless America's avatar

Come on down… to our southern border. You can get a free phone, $$$ and a bus ride to a city in the good ol USA… if you are red pilled and a good hard worker and won’t vote like a snowflake, come on in… 🙏🙏🙏👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

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Guttermouth's avatar

Better submit then.

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God Bless America's avatar

Savage mockery and simple refusal to comply… I like your answers! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

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Rick Larson's avatar

After the first few weeks of wondering what was going on, it could have been a real killing pandemic for all I knew, and other than avoid others as much as possible the first time around, which was actually quite a delightful game, I did that (refuse to comply) the first time around. I still want to know if those injected are shedding and cause to stay away from them, which I want to do anyways. I will gladly not participate.

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SF Bay Area's avatar

If you following along in January by the end of February you would have known it was nothing. It wasn’t easy but the data and information was available.

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John Carter's avatar

Exactly. One the Diamond Princess data was out it was clear COVID wasn't an apocalypse.

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Randall Bachman's avatar

Still wondering about the shed risk too

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

When public health went from suggesting and educating to requiring and mandating it was weaponized. The public will never trust or forgive. So the field destroyed itself.

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Cornwall Marc's avatar

BUT people are terrified on purpose by their governments - So they DEMAND masks, lockdowns, mandates etc. The authorities are only doing what the people want to make them feel safe. The UK govt spent 400 million - and it worked!

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

No virus could ever do what the politicians did to me . Maybe some day I tell my story .

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Cornwall Marc's avatar

Joe, I would really like to hear what you feel comfortable sharing?

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John Carter's avatar

Mockery doesn't only need to be directed at elites and public health officials.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I'm of the belief that most cults ultimately die of ridicule.

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CMCM's avatar

One can hope!

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

That became domestic control and terrorism not public health in its original intent.

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Guttermouth's avatar

It's not their fault, but they are our opposition.

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Rob D's avatar

AMEN

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Tina's avatar

It sounds nutters, but Covid has occasionally caused me to question whether a laser focus on the microscopic world is even a proper concern of medicine to the extent it has become. It’s like now that we know the buggers are there, we are destined to try and delve deeper and deeper into the secrets of this invisible kingdom with our ham-handed methods, all the while feeding the insane delusions of control and manipulation this inevitably fosters.

I don’t know. Wash your hands of course. Of course. But one wonders...in the end putting the virologists on the back burner as you propose is needed may really be a problem of spirit, of humility and knowing the proper place of things I guess. Those lessons come hard to humans.

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eugyppius's avatar

oh i agree. thinking about viruses is dangerous, it can make you crazy

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DAM on the beach's avatar

You ,sir, are very sane. May God continue to bless you.

I am simple, and don’t have the words/education/knowledge of many of the others here who follow you here.

I can recognize integrity, wisdom and courage when I see it.

Your rewards are coming. I know it.

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Rick Larson's avatar

I'm not washing my hands often enough. I will even eat food from my garden without washing it. Well, I'll swipe it on my shirt. There are immunologists who insist the best immune systems are working a lot.

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Tina's avatar

Ha! Good for you. The spirit of my comment was meant more to apply to the medical community where enhanced hygiene is essential due to compromised patients, skin integrity etc. but definitely, restoring the honor to dirt is essential.

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Florida Prophet's avatar

That begs the question: how many of those "compromised patients" were the ones whose parents obsessed over sanitation, preventing their kids' immune systems from learning how to cope with nature?

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Fiona Colombo's avatar

I wonder this, too. Meanwhile, my baby has been sitting outside chewing sticks and leaves and eating handfuls of compost (it's gross coming out the other end. 😬) and my fingers are crossed she'll have an excellent immune system.

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Florida Prophet's avatar

I think you are on a good track. You will have a strong, healthy child.

There’s an old Chinese saying, “What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger.”

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Grape Soda's avatar

I recently ate a sandwich with my hands after being in a semi-public place and touching lots of things. I briefly wondered whether I should have used hand sanitizer first, and then remembered that for eons humans have eaten with dirty hands. There was also some pre-covid research on the usefulness of being exposed to these tiny critters vs growing up in a sterile environment. It’s called the human immune system, and our bureaucrats either ignore it or try to replace it. To the extent the vax does work, thanks also goes to Mother Nature.

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Renee Marie's avatar

CONvid has made non critical thinkers scared of EVERYTHING. Can you imagine this generation of children as adults? Growing up in the 1960’s and 1970’s as a child, we feared nothing. We climbed trees, played in dirt, ate paste (not me)-lol! We would have balked at wearing something over our faces (my parents wouldn’t have allowed it). My God, what happened?!

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finnbuck's avatar

I let my toddler stuff all the dirt in his mouth he wanted to. This is some years ago.

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SF Bay Area's avatar

Viruses are an important part of man kinds survival. Without them we could not survive and flourish.

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The Green Hornet's avatar

Bravo. Spot on. "People like Neil Ferguson and Christian Drosten will be heckled all the way to their graves." Let them take Fauci with them.

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MacGuffin's avatar

In the Hellish afterlife that I foresee for the Covid despots, Justin Trudeau will lead the amateur dramatics workshops. Attendance will be compulsory.

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Helen's avatar

Actually I think Trudeau is already leading the amateur dramatics workshops. It's called the Liberal Government . And we are the captive audience.

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Abner Knight's avatar

Nonsense. Canadians love him, will elect him again, would check themselves into camps if the tv said so.

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Helen's avatar

I agree that those who actually voted for Trudeau love him and would elect him again. Unfortunately only 62.3% of the population voted in the last election and he only got 32.62% of the popular vote. Not exactly a landslide. It is a skewed system that favors Ontario and Quebec while largely leaving out the western Canada vote. In a normal world he would never be voted in again but. . . . !

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Don't you know the N.D.P. ..guy with the turban joined Trudeau to gang up on us . They never run out of tricks .

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Helen's avatar

Oh. I know. More dirty political tricks. In the end the NDP got their limited victory for dental care for children under 12. But most importantly the provinces got little to no more health care funding for the provinces which is what they really need. A small victory for the NDP for a federal mandate that will take care of a very small percentage of the population that actually needs dental care. The NDP is crazy to regard this as a victory. Trudeau threw them a bone and they were suckered enough to take it. Wow. What a victory for the NDP. Free dental care for the population that needs it the least. They are all idiots and we the people that keep voting these people in are the biggest idiots of all. I am a history buff and quite frankly nothing has changed. We continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. To be honest at this point in my life, having inhabited this planet for nearly 72 years I have very little hope for our collective future as a species.

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Grape Soda's avatar

We got the obamatons. They would still be dazzled by him if they saw him push the button to drone a village.

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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

Worst thespian since John Wilkes Boothe.

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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

I was thinking more "hair salon" for Justin.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

Thank you you picked the right guy for that .

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Cornwall Marc's avatar

Don't forget BILL GATES! His money has bought off everyone! Academia + press + WHO + Governments all over the world!

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God Bless America's avatar

Including A lot of our farmland here in the United States… 🔥😱😱😱

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Cornwall Marc's avatar

Yep Apparently he is now the BIGGEST owner of farmland in the US. Now what would he be wanting all that land for?

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baker charlie's avatar

Plus NCOs and Non Profits! ACLU and Amnesty International are no longer fit for purposed.

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Ki's avatar

I hope they get the OJ treatment everywhere they try to go: no restaurant reservations, etc. Prison should be the punishment, but public shame and scorn would almost be worse for these serial narcissists.

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baker charlie's avatar

Good luck with that. On the level that they dine and cater, those chefs and restaurateurs would serve the devil himself if it gave them prestige and money. I used to work in that world and I saw my bosses suck up to some really fucked up people for the 'honor' of doing so.

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T Coddington's avatar

A virus that was contagious and dangerous enough to warrant these measures, but mild enough to be stopped by these measures seems almost impossible to imagine. I'm all for basing our arguments on liberty, but for those that don't hold liberty in such high regard, just pragmatically how could they possibly think these policies would ever be a wise?

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eugyppius's avatar

yes, my thought too. I also think the "truly lethal pandemic virus" is probably impossible. if you look at the common successful seasonal respiratory viruses, despite wild genetic variation, they all cause a similar range of symptoms and with the same narrow range of mortality, suggesting there's real constraints on viruses with pandemic potential – not of all of which we necessarily understand all that well.

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John Carter's avatar

That's certainly true in general. But we've got historical examples of extremely lethal pandemics: the black death, smallpox in the New World, the Plague of Justinian. What's your take on those? Confluence of factors e.g. immune systems weakened due to famine?

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eugyppius's avatar

bacterial plagues are a different phenomenon fundamentally, I think. smallpox an exception

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Rick Larson's avatar

My first thought this current event is a real time blueprint of past events. I would also focus on living arrangements, lifestyles, and diets to find out who actually died of sicknesses and the majority who didn't.

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Cindi's avatar

There is no interest by “THE SCIENCE” to bring any clarity or truth whatsoever to the plandemic. That would leave all of the elitist geniuses subject to Nuremberg 2.0.

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Rick Larson's avatar

I don't think so. Judging by how many people were discussing these events a year ago compared to now it won't take much longer and we'll send the perpetrators to Mars, or something. At some point, at least here in the USA where we've thought of this occurring having the 2A, at some point even the military will rise up. They rook the oath, they know the inner workings, they have the training. Its either fix this or they can own nothing and die on a hospital bed from an experiment.

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Cindi's avatar

I just don’t know; I realize China is culturally & politically very different from the west, but not only did the west fall all over each other to copy the China “strategy” for WuFlu, but I honestly keep wondering how the military & police in Shanghai can do what they are doing. AND why 20-something million people in that city aren’t in major revolt. Surely there aren’t enough military & police to quell that?

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Proximity to wars and the factor associated with them. Dr. Lee Merritt has resurrected old theories about the Spanish Flu arising just as electrification was becoming widespread at the beginning of that century. A novel stimulus for human biology. First outbreaks among telegraph operators.

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John Carter's avatar

Point.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Not afraid of the viruses. Especially now that we have learned so much more about treating them. But these genetic vaccines, their unprecedented use and what they are doing to humanity is disturbing.

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Surviving the Billionaire Wars's avatar

Most of the time it's as much, if not more, about the state of our health than the state of the virus.

Low D3, low glutathione, obesity, lack of fresh air, lack of sufficient sleep, depression, all open the door to illness. Elderly innate immunity wanes.

Viruses that normally would just pass through, instead decide to set up housekeeping & start a family in cozy nasal passages.

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Rascal Nick Of's avatar

Wisdom is not part of their repertoire...

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NE - Naked Emperor Newsletter's avatar

"Masks, lockdowns and finally vaccines have not behaved as promised, they have not ended the pandemic."

No, they've prolonged it.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche's latest posts saying this too. Governments did everything diametrically opposite of what we should have done to calm it down to nothing burger status. Having made those mistakes things could limp along badly for quite some time to come. The plandemic planners had to have known this all along. They violated vaccinology and epidemiological principles on purpose. They weren't stupid or uninformed.

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James Beck's avatar

Sir.

Please explain to me why we don't see anyone on our side championing or setting up blood analysis databases on these easily verifiable vaccine induced injuries.

Blood Clots. d-Dimer, CRP

Immune System D3, D4, D8

Compromise health projections could be made with scientific confidence.

Then you would not have to continue to BEG for interaction & Media attention.

WHY ??

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Dawn K's avatar

Yes, and I have often wondered why vaxxed people aren't the least bit curious about these things... I guess they just don't know about any of this because they only watch mainstream news?

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James Beck's avatar

It is about fear.

They know. They don't want to hear it.

When you send to them the latest (April) results from the countries that were doing a good job of tracking, they get very defensive, call it political BS, then tell me to quit sending them "that stuff".

And now, we are seeing the last of any country reporting any more data for liability reasons. The jig is up. If the Medical "leaders" are not going to step up and do / support this level of truth push back, all is lost. It is depopulation to soon be going on steroids.

We are beyond psychosis now.

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Grape Soda's avatar

Yes. Seeing tons of anecdotes about people dying suddenly very early 20s to 40s. Seems there is no curiosity about this among the public health mandarins.

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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

Rintrah's covid essays are very good, but his Holy of Holies is "the climate crisis." He' s all on board with that one, going so far as to threaten to erase any comment that dares call into question that scam, as I recall. So...

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Hmm. Kind of like Alex Berenson. Mystifying.

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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

I appreciate Berenson for his covid/vaccine skepticism, but thought his disparagement of Malone--on an episode allocated to discuss the silencing of covid dissidents--was awfully, awfully suspicious. Especially since Malone was just starting to sound the alarm on a burgeoning worldwide totalitarian movement. Very weird.

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James Beck's avatar

Alex Berenson is a narcissistic fraud.

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Apr 14, 2022
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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

Like that old Reese's commercial: "Who put peanut butter on my chocolate? They go great together!" I think biomedical security state and climate crisis will link hands and lead us to the utopia that will always be just a few years away.

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eugyppius's avatar

this is basically my view. if we’re talking about virus ideologies, the corona complex is far better adapted to our social/governmental structures than climatism, which always just limped along by comparison.

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carol ann's avatar

You should try living in New Zealand then. The urgency is being ginned up by government at all levels. In schools, climate activism is a huge thing even for 5 year olds.

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carol ann's avatar

I don't find the panic over climate to be nominal. Already they are planning to eliminate all but electric cars and are favouring bike tracks over new roads, removing parking spaces and putting the charges collected from road users into public transport (that hardly anyone uses). Terms used are that it's a climate emergency and already there is talk of possible climate lockdown.

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James Beck's avatar

I think Americans as a whole are either tired of leading the world (Boomers) or the NEA, Dept of Education and Teacher tenure must be abolished.

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Forbes's avatar

--"Masks, lockdowns and finally vaccines have not behaved as promised, they have not ended the pandemic."

Not behaved as promised. But there was no reason to believe they would. All previous studies and experience demonstrated otherwise.

The logical fallacy of argument from authority was trotted out by so-called experts, who were merely politically appointed bureaucrats or elected politicians, pronouncing on affairs outside their authority or expertise in reaction to the mob's call to "do something." Then they poured it on with panic porn, coopting media with millions spent in advertising, and smearing or censoring any with clinical experience suggesting other than the govt line.

Instead of responding with protocols to protect the most vulnerable, most at risk--everyone was treated as vulnerable and at risk. In the US, Fauci, Birx, and Redfield all cut their teeth in the emergence of HIV/AIDS in the '80s where they perpetuated the same nonsense--all were equally at-risk, where testing, track and trace, and research for a vaccine were their primary response.

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Betsy McDonel Herr, Ph.D.'s avatar

Panic porn was an effective tool wasn't it?

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James Beck's avatar

Never in my Libertarian America 1st dreams would I have believed it to be so simple, to herd people into Clift Jumping. I have lost all faith in humanity. Makes me question the purpose of voting.

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Alan Segal's avatar

I believe the lockdown of healthy people began with the lie of asymptomatic spread. We foolishly believed the “experts” who ignored thousands of years of medical history. This would’ve been the first time in medical history than a respiratory virus was spread asymptomatically.

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joe stuerzl 85's avatar

What do you mean we foolishly believed ? Maybe you did but from day one I rejected all the virus scams as criminal .

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Alan Segal's avatar

To paraphrase a Pennsylvania Dutch saying, “We grow too soon old and too late schmart”

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carolyn kostopoulos's avatar

i love the idea of heckling Neil Ferguson and Christian Drosten to their graves. can we add some names to that list? Fauci, Osterholm, Hotez, Offit, Daszek and the entire regular cast of TWIV? these people have no purpose in life unless we are in perpetual fear of invisible pathogens that only they have the supreme knowledge with which to protect us.

if you listen to TWIV for any length of time (2 1/2 years and counting) you see that what they want is for politicians to hand over the money and power with no restrictions or oversight. they want to explore every bat cave on earth and bring samples back to BSL4 labs in densely populated cities so that they can do serial passaging, genetic manipulation on humanized mice (GOF) to see how bad things could possibly get (one virologist said it was like compressing 2000 years of evolution before lunch break) and then make vaccines for all them them so that they can claim to save humanity and earn all the tax money we gave them.

if you don't agree with their plan for humanity, you can be deprived of your liberties and livelihood, packed away in some camp and forcibly inoculated.

we mere uneducated simple folk don't dare question and honestly lack the capacity to question their voodoo. we have only to submit and obey, secure in the knowledge that these noble scientists/gods are doing this for our own good.

my fear is that there are still plenty of people who are willing to go along with this in exchange for some false "safety" and a new "vaccine" every couple of weeks until there's not a functioning immune system left on earth

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David Watson's avatar

The very term "pandemic" was constructed to manipulate a frightened population. Though the term implies an interjurisdictional infection, all jurisdictions treated it differently, indicating its really just a cluster of epidemics. As we've seen, some governments managed it better than others.

Government leadership in emergencies is useful, but mismanagement is worse than no management, so it's important they get it right. The problem in this disaster hasn't been government management, but government mismanagement.

There will be a lot of lessons to be learned, but foremost should be that no emergency justifies overturning fundamental principles. As Ben Franklin wisely foresaw, it's way to easy to lose our liberty when we're frightened.

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James Beck's avatar

America 1st Patriots are still in denial that do no wrong Trump was completely bamboozled by a bunch of technocrats well practiced in fear mongering.

The more I think back to the Spring of 2020 watching Trump read his his prepared speeches every 5:00 pm each day now creates a huge feeling of embarrassment.

And we now know Trump was getting second opinion warnings from others embedded in his Task Force (Dr. Paul Alexander) to change course and demote his spokesperson team he assembled.

Trump should have followed through with his gut instincts and opened the country back up at Easter as he intended moving to early therapeutics and the key supplements strategy.

I know, easy to play arm chair quarterbacking.

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maisyrusselswart's avatar

The point made by Rintrah is misguided in at least one way. It sees the ultimate ground of political action as ethics, which is the same mistake everyone in political theory makes. Ethics won't stop anyone from doing anything. It's like saying taxation is theft. Maybe it is, but that's not going to stop taxation. A similar problem applies here: "you have no right" never trumps "were going to save lives" in public discourse.

Pragmatic considerations rule politics, ethics is gloss and fodder for political theory conferences. What needs to be done is to decouple the "we can do anything we put our minds to" ideology that comes (imo) from military successes, primarily in wwii. 'If we can mobilize all those people in short order to complete such a massive task, what can't we do! Especially with sCieNce!" Its this kind of retardation that drives interventionism at all levels of govt.

The only way to do the above (imo) is to convince people that epistemology matters, and that immature sciences aren't worth much and models are worth less. It works in first aid, e.g. a motorcyclist crashes, people want to help, tell them moving the rider may kill/paralyze him and they'll stop. Tell them they have no right to move him and they'll push you out of the way and begin to "help"

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arthur brogard's avatar

We have a lot of protection already but we won't use it.

It requires a 'State of Emergency' to be declared before Emergency Powers can be adopted.

those States of Emergency should not be adopted easily, readily, lightly and it should not go unnoticed when they are.

But they are adopted that way and it does go unnoticed.

And no one makes any attempt to bring it to the public's notice.

It is interesting in this context to note that regarding Bushfires in Australia at least a 'State of Emergency' is habitually declared.

I don't know if this is entirely the same 'State' as that declared by these 'covid emergency' declarations but it seems to me it would.

In which case it should be legislated and made clear that there's a considerable difference and 'bushfire emergency' would carry it's own set of 'emergency powers' and commensurate legislative provisions.

And this nation or State wide declaration should be reserved, as I think is intended in the constitution, for only those desperate scenarios where all the existing protocols, provisions, resources et al, are clearly incapable of solving the situation.

This was clearly never the case in this covid thing, never, ever. For it never did such inordinate harm.

And existing protocols and procedures were never attempted.

That's from the word 'go', right in the beginning that was true. But by the time two years later it's not only true that States of Emergency were improper it is so glaringly obvious it staggers the imagination. Not only was there/is there no emergency there's not even a threat currently.

The problem is that the protocol has lost its meaning. It is now seen as merely the obvious and proper procedure. As with Fire so with Covid. When there's a big bushfire they declare almost as a reflex action.

Then they go about ordering people to leave their homes and such which often (in my opinion) is of questionable necessity and can lead to needless property loss and heartbreak. But they don't go running all around the State ordering everyone to wear masks, lockdown and such madness.

So the people are not aware these are the same thing.

They are 'schooled' to believe 'State of Emergency' is a sort of proper and normal and necessary and good response to dangerous situations.

So they don't look into it. They don't think to object.

In fact in the bushfire situation we can clearly see after all these decades that there's nothing unusual about it that normal procedures couldn't handle. It's not an emergency at all within the proper meaning of the word.

And it should stop being seen as such and these measures being seen as a 'normal' response.

That would be the beginning of protecting ourselves: simply returning to first principles - those principles that established what States of Emergency are and why they have to be (reluctantly) declared sometimes and how they should be used, monitored and ended as soon as possible.

It/they should be a big thing. 'Big'.

Considering it a trifle and a norm is to establish that giving someone the power to rule despotically over your whole State or Country IS a trifle and a norm.

And - do I need to say it - giving someone despotic power over you should not be 'a trifle' and it should not be 'the norm'.

But that's where we are at right now. In this country (Aus) at least.

Without a peep, a murmur, from all those we'd expect to watch over this kind of thing, warn and advise and fight against such misuse.

But we can do it ourselves. Bug our reps. And tell them. Constantly. And vote every single one out if they won't do as we wish. Very hard for us to do when we're in such a minority? Yes, maybe impossible, but in the threatening to do it, in the 'bugging' we might make many of these sinecured idiot/villains uncomfortable and fearful enough for their futures that things may begin to happen.

It's for sure that doing anything - 'anything' - is better than the current state where all we do is talk to each other in columns such as these.

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Andreas Stullkowski's avatar

I agree with you.

It is absolutely true that "it should not be the job of our government to stop viruses from spreading by rationing social interaction among healthy people."

But most people here in Germany think this is exactly the job of the government.

One of the many lessons we learned from Corona is how willfully helpless so many people are, eager to put all their life into the hands of our benevolent government.

These people will not easily change. It can only happen with a slow wakeup. People realizing that the Corona policies were useless, and then little by little being willing to doubt everything of the official narrative.

It will be a slow process. It will take generations, and looking at the eagerness of the young people to follow all Corona orders, we will probably not be alive anymore when the change comes to fruition.

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James Beck's avatar

Isn't it amazing how we discovered really how stupid and dependent our populations have become.

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Andreas Stullkowski's avatar

It is worse: we discovered how stupid and dependent our populations always was.

We here in Germany know where this can lead to, under certain circumstances.

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